Himel website updated

[Mich486]

They are the finest leather jackets in the world so I guess they must be pricey

More seriously, they sure are overpriced (what of what we like is not?) but maybe instead of owning half a dozen Aero jackets someone might prefer to own one or two Himel? Sounds plausible to me. Artisanal goods made with fine materials can’t be cheap. And yes I wouldn’t change the oil of my car in a Himel but not even in Aero.


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[Monitor]

They are the finest leather jackets in the world so I guess they must be pricey

More seriously, they sure are overpriced (what of what we like is not?) but maybe instead of owning half a dozen Aero jackets someone might prefer to own one or two Himel? Sounds plausible to me. Artisanal goods made with fine materials can’t be cheap. And yes I wouldn’t change the oil of my car in a Himel but not even in Aero.


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But they're not that much pricier than Aero. They're 2x Aero which is well within Japanese jacket price range.

 

[Superfluous]

Could the same not apply to any of the jackets posted in https://www.thefedoralounge.com/thr...t-all-warning-not-for-the-fainthearted.85462/ ? :3

Yes. However, the criticism in that thread generally focuses on the styles of the jackets (and the prices), as opposed to a demeaning psychological analysis of the men and women who purchase the jackets. I don't have a problem with critical commentary regarding jacket styles. That is plainly fair game. However, when the commentary transcends the jacket styles, and disparages the buyers who are members of the TFL community, that is disrespectful, hurtful, and counterproductive. Go ahead and tell me that you think my jacket is ugly, but don't tell me that I purchased the jacket for questionable motives unrelated to a simple desire to wear the jacket.

I think people are put off by the price more than by anything else. At some point, price stops making any sense and it just shifts the maker into, I dunno, Versace territory.

Price is always a sensitive subject that elicits strong and sometimes acrimonious discourse. Jacket pricing is the tip of the iceberg. Why would anyone drink a $1,000 bottle of wine? At least a jacket can last you many years, or a lifetime, whereas a bottle of wine provides a mere hour of enjoyment. Yet, I have friends who do not hesitate to spend a $1,000 on a bottle of wine. Why spend $400,000 on a car when there are fantastic cars available for $80,000? I could continue ad nauseam.

Again, debating pricing and the correlation to subjective value is all good. The problems arise when the discussion becomes personal and derogatory towards the owners/patrons. I have seen it countless times. "That guy driving the Ferrari is not a real car enthusiast -- rather, he is driving the car solely to garner attention." Unless you have some inside personal knowledge to support the supposition, that is just plain disrespectful. Why go there. I know many Ferrari owners and, without exception, they are all dedicated, passionate and knowledgeable car enthusiasts. Unfortunately, people who spend considerable sums of money on luxury items are often unfairly targeted and disparaged.

Debate the products and pricing all day long, but do not resort to generalizations and characterizations about the owners.

But yeah, there's nothing wrong with Himel's prices. Yet.

Does that mean you are considering a Himel jacket?

Himel jackets are definitely on the pricier side, but they are MUCH less than many designer leather jackets. Moreover, with Good Wear jackets costing $1,400 - $1,600, and Aero Vicenza jackets costing $1,300 (depending on details), and other jackets in the $1,000 - $1,500 range, Himel jackets are not that much more. A Good Wear jacket is literally over three times more expensive then certain of the jackets favored by TFL members, but very few characterize Good Wear pricing as outlandish. There appears to me a rather arbitrary, mythical cut-off for many at around $1,200 - $1,500, and anything more is outrageous. Nothing wrong with that. Setting limits is important. Just don't disparage someone whose cut-off is $1,000 higher.

 

[Superfluous]

but maybe instead of owning half a dozen Aero jackets someone might prefer to own one or two Himel? Sounds plausible to me. Artisanal goods made with fine materials can’t be cheap.

Exactly.

@Superfluous you are very eloquent! With your latin and such I'd guess you are a lawyer! If I could afford it I'd buy a Himel Wolverine right now and proceed to wear the hell out of it. Their jackets are just so beautiful and well crafted, honestly it seems worth the price. Like many Japanese brands you gotta "put some skin in the game" (not sure that's the correct expression).

Amen.

Ps: Calling me a lawyer is even more offensive then calling me a hipster who purchases Himel jackets as cultural artifacts.

 

[Seb Lucas]

Seb,

I have always enjoyed your well-reasoned, respectful posts. As such, given your awareness that several TFL members own Himel jackets and hold the brand in high esteem, I am disappointed that you would post pejorative and inaccurate generalizations about those who own the jackets. How many Himel jacket owners have your surveyed in order to conclude that they are not real leather jacket wearers, but rather, hipsters collecting cultural artifacts? Please share the empirical data supporting your sweeping pronouncement.

@Mysteryo, @Carlos840, @SpeedRcrX and @Boyo all own Himel jackets -- just to name a few. Are they all hipster collectors as opposed to real leather jacket wearers? In my experience, Himel jacket owners are generally men and women who are informed and knowledgeable about leather jackets, appreciate leather jackets incorporating outstanding leather and artisan craftsmanship, and wear the hell out of their jackets. I personally wear my Himel jackets as often as I possibly can, even when the weather does not warrant it (to my wife's great amusement), and I certainly didn't buy the jackets as cultural artifacts. To the best of my knowledge, @Mysteryo, @Carlos840, @SpeedRcrX and @Boyo also regularly wear their Himel jackets.

Its one thing to state that Himel jackets are "overpriced." That is a debatable, subjective opinion. On the other hand, it is an entirely different thing to outright disparage the owners of the jackets. How would you feel if I posted that owners of XXX jackets -- which happens to be your personal favorite -- are uninformed, cheap bastards with no concept of quality who waste their money on palpably inferior jackets. That would not be cool. More to the point, it would be disrespectful and inaccurate. IMHO, ad hominem generalizations about owners of particular brands have no place on this forum.

You are better than this Seb. Even though we patronize very different brands (although I have been wanting a brown Carhartt Detroit for a long time, but have concerns about sizing), I have always respected your even-handed approach and acceptance of those with different perspectives. That is why I was particularly surprised by your above-post.

Now I understand why Dave hates this forum and rarely participates. Its a shame because he has a tremendous amount to contribute and, if he was not such a target of animosity, he might post here and we would all benefit from his wealth of knowledge.

The bottom line is that Himel jackets are not for everyone. They ain't cheap and, as I have acknowledged countless time, they are priced far beyond the point of diminishing returns. Nevertheless, the owners of Himel jackets deserve the same respect as owners of Aero, Schott and Vanson jackets. Nothing more, nothing less.

Sorry if my post offended you - just writing what I felt, this was not meant as a go at Himel owners although I could see how somemone might come that that conculsion - just expressing my view. I discovered Dave some years ago when he only had 2 or 3 jackets and read his blog with interest.

I have written before - and not just about Himel - that there is a category of leather jacket that is so elevated, refined and collectible that it scarcely counts as a wearable jacket for knocking around in. By that I mean it transcends that category completely.

I'm sure that people do wear their Himels - and some do so on more than special ocassions. But the Himel product (like some others) has come very far from the working class origins of leather jackets.

I guess all I'm saying is that Himel is a luxury brand and for that reason it represents the opposite of why I like leather jackets. But please don't take that as some kind of slight. There are people who wear Rolex or Patek Philippe watches becasue they want more than just a watch. Same thing. I just though my view wasn't out of place in the interest of canvasing a range of takes on any given maker.

By the way - I am not saying that Himels are not worth the money. If I wanted to say that I would have said Himels are not worth the money and argued why.

Re the Carhartt Detroit, Carlos - I bought a size down and wear a medium. You're right. Looks great.

 

[Big J]

I agree with Seb, these are repro workwear styles marketed (and priced) as high-end fashion. I expect that most of them will end up 'wrapped in cotton wool' with owners fretting over scratches and scrapes whilst they save their jacket for 'bests'. By all means, prove me wrong; post a pic of the Himel you bought brand new, full price, with all the character that comes from a hard life. I will be impressed.

As for the website, yeah, nice and glossy, but mentioning features like 'a one piece back' and then not bothering to provide a picture is kind of a fail.

Style over substance, given a free-pass on price because of snobbery? Maybe.

 

[Guppy]

I guess all I'm saying is that Himel is a luxury brand and for that reason it represents the opposite of why I like leather jackets.

Most of the brands we talk about here are luxuries. Even "equipment" brands like Vanson are a luxury, when you consider that there are cheaper "good enough to do the job" makers out there. I think most of us here like the high end, high quality brands not because they are expensive, but because they are GOOD.

Here we tend to look down on expensive brands where you're paying for the label and the name, not the quality of the materials and workmanship. I haven't handled a Himel jacket firsthand to be able to judge it that way, but everything I've seen and read about them says that they are very high quality. Very expensive and more so than most, and not something that everyone can consider, and maybe that can create some resentment. But they are beautiful and refined, and although they're a bit out of the price range I'd consider affordable to me, if one were offered to me, I certainly wouldn't turn it down.

People can probably make an argument about the difference between a $500 jacket and a $2500 jacket not being worth $2000, same as you can make that argument about a $25000 car and a $500000 car, and in most cases they're probably right -- but then, it does depend on what two jackets you're comparing.

 

[Seb Lucas]

Guppy, it's a given that many luxury items are GOOD. That's not helpful advice at all. Matter of fact, many are SUPERLATIVE!

And maybe this is best argued somewhere else. But in short - I'm the guy who won't pay more than $15 for a t-shirt. I am thrifty. But not because I am broke or on a budget.

This site was originally an off shoot of the Indy Gear Indiana Jones website, created to celebrate vintage items and styles - often second hand and picked up for close to nix. The idea that jackets would be recreated at such high levels is never something I subscribed to as luxury items are not my thing - even though I admire and enjoy looking at them. But it's got to the point now where I won't buy Aero new either because I can't justify paying over $1000 for a jacket. Sure, it's arbitrary - where do I draw the line? etc, etc. Like anything to do with taste it's largely subjective. Anyway I've confused or bored enough people about this by now.

 

[BlueWallpaper]

one thing i find very odd about this forum is the implication that the jackets frequently discussed aren’t fashion items (and a vague distaine for fashion). a GW A-2 is as much of a fashion jacket as a himel or a distressed RRL.

if you read this forum you’re way more into fashion, and thinking about what you wear, than the average person.

on topic, i wish there’d been a heads up about the price change. i was really on the fence about a kensington and would have ordered one if i knew a price change was occurring.

 

[Guppy]

Guppy, it's a given that many luxury items are GOOD. That's not helpful advice at all. Matter of fact, many are SUPERLATIVE!

I mean to differentiate our tastes here from the tastes that exist in certain circles that the more expensive something is, the more inherently better and desirable it is. I'm talking about people on a $10,000/day budget, and the people who envy their lifestyles.

one thing i find very odd about this forum is the implication that the jackets frequently discussed aren’t fashion items (and an vague distaine for fashion). a GW A-2 is as much of a fashion jacket as a himel or a distressed RRL.

if you read this forum you’re way more into fashion, and thinking about what you wear, than the average person.

True, but we're a niche, rather than mainstream fashion. Mostly we're talking about vintage fashion, a few of us are just really into nice leather jackets.

 

[Seb Lucas]

I mean to differentiate our tastes here from the tastes that exist in certain circles that the more expensive something is, the more inherently better and desirable it is. I'm talking about people on a $10,000/day budget, and the people who envy their lifestyles.



True, but we're a niche, rather than mainstream fashion. Mostly we're talking about vintage fashion, a few of us are just really into nice leather jackets.

Interestingly, the very rich people I have met have not tended to care much about brands - probably old money. One guy who had your $10k a day to spend on whatever nonsense he wanted to wore a $15 Casio watch and Target clothing and drove a Toyota. There are many ways to be very rich.

Is it really that some of us are 'just really into nice leather jackets'? It's much more complex than that. For one thing it is often about what those jackets represent - lifestyle, taste, choices, identity, etc. And one person's nice jacket is another person's anathema, etc. And many of us are deeply into denim and footwear too, so....

 

[Guppy]

Interestingly, the very rich people I have met have not tended to care much about brands - probably old money. One guy who had your $10k a day to spend on whatever nonsense he wanted to wore a $15 Casio watch and Target clothing and drove a Toyota. There are many ways to be very rich.

Of course; nothing in what I said should have been construed in such a way as to say that all ultra-rich people are like that. But you do know the type, right? $150,000 diamond encrusted iPhones just because, that sort of thing.

 

[Seb Lucas]

one thing i find very odd about this forum is the implication that the jackets frequently discussed aren’t fashion items (and an vague distaine for fashion). a GW A-2 is as much of a fashion jacket as a himel or a distressed RRL.

if you read this forum you’re way more into fashion, and thinking about what you wear, than the average person.

That made me laugh. Kind of, but really ours is a particular sub-category of clothing appreciation, not really fashion, which changes rapidly, isn't about quality construction and thrives on constant stylistic transformation. The stuff this site is on about is classic, (perhaps timeless) items that can be worn for decades. Kind of the opposite of pure fashion.

 

[Superfluous]

one thing i find very odd about this forum is the implication that the jackets frequently discussed aren’t fashion items (and an vague distaine for fashion). a GW A-2 is as much of a fashion jacket as a himel or a distressed RRL.

So true!

if you read this forum you’re way more into fashion, and thinking about what you wear, than the average person.

Again, spot on. Reminds me of one of the questions promulgated by Alcoholics Anonymous for those contemplating whether they are alcoholics: Have you ever attended an AA meeting? People who are not alcoholics do not attend AA meetings, and people who don't care about fashion, and their appearance in clothing, do not post about their clothing preferences in a clothing forum.

The fact that we are talking about reproductions of vintage styles does not make them any less fashionable. Workwear and motorcycle jackets are the cutting edge of mainstream fashion these days, and military jackets are not far behind. Moreover, vintage motorcycle jackets were generally marketed to mainstream America as a fashionable look, as opposed to purpose built protection for motorcyclists. Look at the original advertisements for Buco and Sears jackets (guy wearing a jacket and smoking a pipe -- that ain't no Hells Angel). Military jackets admittedly have a different origin unrelated to fashion, but they too have since been coopted by Madison Avenue and integrated into mainstream fashion. One need look no further than this thread to see how fashionable military jackets have become: https://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/famous-people-in-flight-jackets.67540/ .

Utilitarian and fashionable are not mutually exclusive. An item of clothing can serve an important function and also be fashionable. Perhaps the best example is women's workout clothing. Women flock to LuLuLemon because their workout clothing is both very functional and well made, but the real success of LuLuLemon has been their ability to make workout clothing fashionable.

Therefore, while most of us have varied motivations for our shared obsession with outerwear, cultivating a good look is surely a factor for everyone, and the overlap between this passion and the broad notion of fashion is undeniable.

 

[Superfluous]

I expect that most of them will end up 'wrapped in cotton wool'

I have no idea what this means, and my Himel jackets are not wrapped in anything.

post a pic of the Himel you bought brand new, full price, with all the character that comes from a hard life.

How many here genuinely subject their leather jackets to a “hard life”? Very, very few (A-1 is the only person I can think of). In my experience, owners of Aero, Lost Worlds, Schott, Vanson, Thedi and Good Wear jackets are no more/less abusive to their $800-$1,600 jackets than owners of Himel jackets. I certainly am not treating my Himel jackets any differently than my other jackets. As far as I know, no one here is mining for coal, changing their car oil, bull riding, or plumbing underneath their home while wearing a $800+ leather jacket, or even a $500 leather jacket. Rather, most of us wear our leather jackets for rather mundane daily living, as opposed to “hard” wear. Moreover, many of us rotate several jackets, and are also limited by the realities of our local climate. None of this is unique to Himel, but rather, applies equally to most of the brands we discuss here. Based on the foregoing, it generally takes many, many years – often decades – to really beat up a leather jacket along the lines of the vintage pieces occasionally posted here. Dav has a well worn Highwayman, but he has owned it for many years. Whenever he posts a photo of it, everyone comments about how well-worn it is, precisely because there are few such jackets here from any current repro maker. Himel has only been selling jackets for approximately seven years. My five Himel jackets are all relatively new. In ten years, I strongly suspect there will be many well-worn Himel jackets floating around, but for now most Himel jackets are in the infancy stage of their evolution.

 

[nick123]

The Chevalier at around $2k I’d save my pennies for. The thing’s beautiful. Carlos’s is the bomb. That’s my current price limit. Of course it’ll inevitably increase in a few years lol.

They really are beautiful looking jackets.

 

[jacketjunkie]

I think Himel jackets are gorgeous. But I kind of feel Seb's notion that these 2k+ jackets (regardless of brand) have strayed very far from leather jackets origins -hard wearing working class clothing. I still buy these jackets because I do love a hard wearing piece of clothing; I wear 6-7 oz t-shirts, overbuilt leather boots and well.. overbuilt leather jackets and Himel's jackets are less so overbuilt as an Aero or Vanson but more refined in stitching, details, leather, etc. Gorgeous and certainly outstanding in these regards, but not what fascinates me about leather jackets. It almost feels like different marketed qualities aimed at different markets, but ofcourse, there is no denying that Aero also starts moving in that direction with Vicenca leather, new more expensive styles and all that.

 

[Benj]

I just hope that anyone balking at the fact that a $2200 Himel Jacket is no longer "working class clothing" also agrees that an $800 aero or $1100 Lost Worlds isn't either.

 

[jacketjunkie]

I just hope that anyone balking at the fact that a $2200 Himel Jacket is no longer "working class clothing" also agrees that an $800 aero or $1100 Lost Worlds isn't either.

Arguably none of the brands fancied here is working class clothing, agreed. However it cannot be denied that it is quite a step from 800 USD to 2200 USD as well and 800 USD is certainly much closer to what your average middle class fashion oriented person pays for their Woolrich, Canada Goose, etc jackets.

 

[Sloan1874]

That's an interesting point. This niche does seem to be gravitating towards that strata - it's feeling very 'Filson', isn't it? Not questioning quality but manufacturers are gradually pushing up their prices (ELC is charging £900 for an off-the-peg A2) for whatever reason - materials, labour, market-pressures. I guess at some point each of us taps out of a maker's customer base when they push the price beyond a point *shrugs*.