Help to Clarify What My Fedora Is

[guitarmasta12]

I just got a dark brown fedora with a red ,black and white feather a couple days ago. I'm trying to clarify that it's from the early 50s. I got it from ebay and the person claimed it was a Dobbs Twenty Hat. I'm not sure if it is one or not. ok so here's the details about it. It has the Dobbs logo and the coach on the leather sweat band in gold but, there's no Twenty under it. I tried to see if it wore off but i cant see the indent of it ever being there. Next, right by the logo and coach is the guild edge logo in gold. Then towards the back of hat on the sweat band is the letters S.G.B. in gold. And by there more towards halfway to the front of the sweat band is what appears to be a shield worn off and right by that next to it is letters worn off and right under that says "Gentleman's Hat" worn off. All of this lettering was all most likely in gold. Now the liner. It's a maroon silk. In the middle of the hat is the Dobbs logo with the borders and lettering in gold and it's like and late 40s oval shape. I think the background of the logo is in brown or maroon. The logo looks like it's covered with a yellowish material that's obviously see-through. I'm not sure if it's a twenty hat or not like I said in the beginning. Here are some pics.

1. http://i1150.photobucket.com/albums/o602/acdc434/DSC00062_zps10c7f0a6.jpg

2. http://i1150.photobucket.com/albums/o602/acdc434/DSC00061_zpse7adb2c6.jpg

3. http://i1150.photobucket.com/albums/o602/acdc434/DSC00060_zps47b7a4fc.jpg

4. http://i1150.photobucket.com/albums/o602/acdc434/DSC00059_zps788c0568.jpg

5. http://i1150.photobucket.com/albums/o602/acdc434/DSC00052_zps304f9391.jpg

6. http://i1150.photobucket.com/albums/o602/acdc434/DSC00051_zps729baeae.jpg

7. http://i1150.photobucket.com/albums/o602/acdc434/DSC00050_zps9a2df0f4.jpg

8. http://i1150.photobucket.com/albums/o602/acdc434/DSC00049_zpsa772c110.jpg

Tell me if you need more pics.

 

[ManofKent]

Try and get a photo of the tag/label under the sweatband that shows the block number.

 

[guitarmasta12]

I forgot to mention that it wasn't in there

 

[hatsRme]

Pictures tell thousands of words...

 

[barrowjh]

Yes, a pic would be nice, and it can be difficult for newcomers to figure that out. You have to upload your pics to something like Photobucket and then copy a link and drop the link into your post, its complicated first time around, and this is not a complete description. In Photobucket it provides 4 types of links, and it is the 'IMG' link that will work here.

However, your verbal description is very helpful. The inscription on the sweatband about 'gilded edge' - take another look at that, it should be 'guild edge' which was Dobbs' name for a Cavanaugh edge (felted brim edge), and these are VERY desirable, especially if the brim width is reasonably wide, 2 1/2 in is probably most popular. There are entire threads here about Cav edges. Here is my own collection of Cavs 'on patrol'


You also mention a see-through covering over the crown - a yellowish material - it was called oil-skin and it is the precursor to modern clear plastic that was first introduced by Stetson in about 1952 - so - at the youngest extreme - your hat dates from at least the early 1950s if not 40s or older. Those names - Dobbs 20 - can be helpful in dating the hat, but you are not really certain that it was a Dobbs 20. If it were, that name meant it was a $20 hat at a time when an ounce of gold was about $35. Hats named in this way were 'top shelf' really nice hats (or at least upper-shelf quality) in terms that are not affected by inflation.

There are several Dobbs in my pic - the hat on the right in 2nd row - grey with maroon ribbon - next to it, a medium brown with rust ribbon, began its life as a Dobbs but the sweatband has been replaced, and in the last row there is a dark brown Dobbs sitting on a Dobbs box (I have since given this to a niece).

 

[barrowjh]

I want to expand a little on the '20' - using Stetson as an example (since we have fleshed out a lot of historical detail on them here) a Stetson 20 was the same as a Stetson Sovereign and both sold for $20 in catalog pages alongside Stetson 3X Beaver which sold for $15 - and the catalog description for these mentioned beaver content. So, a Dobbs 20 from that same era (and with an oil-skin tip cover, it is the same era) was very likely a beaver blend, really nice felt.

 

[fedoracentric]

Seems to me if it doesn't have a "20" on it somewhere, it isn't a Dobbs 20.

 

[TheDane]

So, a Dobbs 20 from that same era (and with an oil-skin tip cover, it is the same era) was very likely a beaver blend, really nice felt.

I don't think, that can be directly concluded. Beaver-content is not necessarily a sign of higher quality. Many very fine quality hats never had any beaver in them. A content of 25-50% beaver didn't do that much to the price. The felting process and the finish - and the hours/days involved - was the costly part. I wouldn't be the least surprised, if a Dobbs 20 was a non-beaver hat.

Today is another story, as most of the differences in the felting and finishing processes are more or less lost. To me it seems like, most hatters are capable of doing pretty much the same to a felt body - which leaves us with the content as the main difference. Still, the difference between two felt bodies - a good hare/rabbit blend and a 100% beaver - only $10-15 in 2014.

 

[guitarmasta12]

Sorry I had a typo on guided edge. And, I'll get some pics soon.

 

[guitarmasta12]

I just put some pics up.

 

[guitarmasta12]

Yes, a pic would be nice, and it can be difficult for newcomers to figure that out. You have to upload your pics to something like Photobucket and then copy a link and drop the link into your post, its complicated first time around, and this is not a complete description. In Photobucket it provides 4 types of links, and it is the 'IMG' link that will work here.

However, your verbal description is very helpful. The inscription on the sweatband about 'gilded edge' - take another look at that, it should be 'guild edge' which was Dobbs' name for a Cavanaugh edge (felted brim edge), and these are VERY desirable, especially if the brim width is reasonably wide, 2 1/2 in is probably most popular. There are entire threads here about Cav edges. Here is my own collection of Cavs 'on patrol'


You also mention a see-through covering over the crown - a yellowish material - it was called oil-skin and it is the precursor to modern clear plastic that was first introduced by Stetson in about 1952 - so - at the youngest extreme - your hat dates from at least the early 1950s if not 40s or older. Those names - Dobbs 20 - can be helpful in dating the hat, but you are not really certain that it was a Dobbs 20. If it were, that name meant it was a $20 hat at a time when an ounce of gold was about $35. Hats named in this way were 'top shelf' really nice hats (or at least upper-shelf quality) in terms that are not affected by inflation.

There are several Dobbs in my pic - the hat on the right in 2nd row - grey with maroon ribbon - next to it, a medium brown with rust ribbon, began its life as a Dobbs but the sweatband has been replaced, and in the last row there is a dark brown Dobbs sitting on a Dobbs box (I have since given this to a niece).

I just added photos to my thread.

 

[fedoracentric]

None of your links work.

Edit to add...


Ah, now you fixed them. Your hat is from the 1960s.

 

[guitarmasta12]

None of your links work.

Edit to add...


Ah, now you fixed them. Your hat is from the 1960s.

Ok Do you think it's the early 60s?

 

[fedoracentric]

Ok Do you think it's the early 60s?

Probably. The very short brim style you have there was typical of the time. Anybody else agree?

 

[guitarmasta12]

Probably. The very short brim style you have there was typical of the time. Anybody else agree?

It's my first fedora in my collection. It is a very beautiful hat. Oh and what do you think gentleman's hat means? it's in there worn off.

 

[splintercellsz]

Fedoracentric is correct in placing the hats manufacture period. I think gentleman's hat just is an advertising slogan, like the ads that say the hat makes one look youthful and smart... something along those lines any how. Nice Hat, and welcome to the lounge!

 

[guitarmasta12]

Fedoracentric is correct in placing the hats manufacture period. I think gentleman's hat just is an advertising slogan, like the ads that say the hat makes one look youthful and smart... something along those lines any how. Nice Hat, and welcome to the lounge!

Thanks! I'm glad this one is made of the better materials.I heard some of the newer ones are made of synthetic material and had plastic in the liner. This one has a yellowish oil material (forgot the name). I originally thought it was early 50's from the logo in the liner. I'm gonna look at the dating guide I saw on here.

 

[TheDane]

This one has a yellowish oil material (forgot the name).

In hat-circles it has been known by many names - "oilskin" and "onionskin" are some I have heard/read - but it was manufactured and sold as "oil-silk" or "oiled silk". European hat companies used it for liner tips up through the 60s. In the US I think it was phased out in the 50s ... first as moisture membrane behind the sweatband, and then as liner tip cover.

 

[barrowjh]

I disagree with the 60s - the liner tip is oil-skin and that went out with Stetson's introduction of the clear plastic tip in 1952-53 approx; so I stand on what I estimated earlier - an early 1950s hat at the youngest. BTW, in that pic from the sweatband where you can barely see the Dobbs name in a semi-circle, I can see the 'ty' from the word twenty right under that. This IS a Dobbs 20 IMHO. Brim width provides only an approximation of age - there were short-brimmed hats in the 1930s. The stingy-brims became most popular in the 60s with the rat-pack, so we tend to associate the short brim with that time frame, but in this case the oil-skin is more clear evidence than brim width for dating the hat. It is unlikely that any major manufacturer continued using oil-skin for the tip liner after the mid-50s, as they would appear to be 'falling behind' the competition. That big wide ribbon is also a bit of a marker, more common to older than newer hats, but none of the evidence is as strong as the oil-skin tip liner. The major manufacturers might have continued using oil-skin as a sweat barrier behind the sweatband for several years after the clear plastic tip was introduced.

 

[guitarmasta12]

I disagree with the 60s - the liner tip is oil-skin and that went out with Stetson's introduction of the clear plastic tip in 1952-53 approx; so I stand on what I estimated earlier - an early 1950s hat at the youngest. BTW, in that pic from the sweatband where you can barely see the Dobbs name in a semi-circle, I can see the 'ty' from the word twenty right under that. This IS a Dobbs 20 IMHO. Brim width provides only an approximation of age - there were short-brimmed hats in the 1930s. The stingy-brims became most popular in the 60s with the rat-pack, so we tend to associate the short brim with that time frame, but in this case the oil-skin is more clear evidence than brim width for dating the hat. It is unlikely that any major manufacturer continued using oil-skin for the tip liner after the mid-50s, as they would appear to be 'falling behind' the competition. That big wide ribbon is also a bit of a marker, more common to older than newer hats, but none of the evidence is as strong as the oil-skin tip liner. The major manufacturers might have continued using oil-skin as a sweat barrier behind the sweatband for several years after the clear plastic tip was introduced.

You saw a T' and a Y'? I'm gonna look harder to see it. And the oil skin I read was from like 52' and lasted to the mid 50s like you said so I still had your opinion in mind. Thanks for the help! This is my first Fedora in my collection.. I'm a bit of a nooby.