Hello from a new member: UPDATE INCLUDED

[dopey]

I have been reading this message board for nearly a year without bothering to register, but I thought it was finally time to pop up and say hello. The main impetus for doing it now, though, is to thank Panama Bob.

For nearly ten years, I have been wearing hats everyday in all but the summer months. I recently decided it was time to add a Panama to my hat wardrobe to close that gap and bring hats closer to year-round use for me.

My search for a suitable hat led me to e-bay, Worth & Worth, Brent Black and others, including a website that I realized was associated with Panama Bob. When I realized that the website pointed me to the same guy as Panama Bob from the Fedora Lounge, I decided to give him a call. He has been a pleasure to deal with and the hat I finally settled on was delivered last week. My main regret is that because of timing issues, I was too late to have it blocked by Art this season and could not be certain of even getting an Ecuador blocked hat from Panama Bob for another month. In other words, if I wanted a hat from PB in the near term, I was on my own in terms of getting it blockEd and trimmed. While that was too bad for me, I figured it was still better than the alternatives. I placed my order and the hat arrived last Friday.

Now for the blocking and finisihing. I have had a not so good experience with the one person I used in NY for hat blocking and have tried to find other sources. After visiting some hat shops in NY to find someone to do the blocking and finishing, i was referred to one place in Manhattan and one in Brooklyn. I stopped in on the Manhattan one, which had a Panama block with a nice rake and island crown in my size, but they had no sweatbands. They found a dealer to supply them, but his minimum quantity requirement was huge. Instead, they asked if I could try to source one myself while they continued to look. I may have been successful. We will see if it shows up. (In case that falls through, I would appreciate any leads on where to get leather sweats and on what to look for). I dropped the hat off for blocking yesterday and expect to visit it early next week, I hope with a sweatband in hand, to choose the trimming.

One final note - I had first visited the blocker without my hat to check them out and see what they could do. When I came by the next day with the hat in hand, his jaw dropped. It was the nicest Panama he had seen, he said, and didn’t think they came any better than that. The quoted price also went up as he said that they would be sure to spend a lot more time and care on it now that they had seen it. I have no idea if i have chosen the right place, although I am comfortable that they will do no harm. I also didn’t have a lot of great options.

All in all, this process has been pretty bizarre and far more time consuming than I would have liked. On the other hand, it has been a pleasure to deal with Panama Bob, even if hat has been much less convenient than getting everything done in one place. I can only hope it turns out well. Certainly, the hat itself is a beauty and well worth the price. I was shown a four-figure hat at a shop in NYC, and I believe mine is its equal or better. I hope the finished product turns out as well.

Thanks to Panama Bob, and regards to all.

 

[Canyon]

Welcome to the Fedora Lounge!

I myself only own one fedora, the Akubra, but hope to update my collection someday.

http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?t=2614

 

[Panamabob]

Thanks for your kind words.

The hats speak for themselves.

From the words of Sharpetoys...."Buy the hat, not the story!"

 

[Canadave]

hope it turns out...let us know!

...I stopped in on the Manhattan one, which had a Panama block with a nice rake and island crown in my size, but they had no sweatbands....

A hat shop without sweatbands? That's pretty scary!

...The quoted price also went up as he said that they would be sure to spend a lot more time and care on it now that they had seen it...

That sounds a bit fishy too. Sorry to be negative, but if the hat doesn't turn out how you like, there will always be Art in time for next summer.

David

 

[jamespowers]

They had better spend a lot of time on that hat. They just don't grow on trees. I am perfectly happy with mine.

Regards to all,

J

 

[Panamabob]

David,

It is true. The finer the hat, the more it costs to block it. Very hot irons have a lot to do with that...one mistake and boom!

 

[dopey]

A hat shop without sweatbands? That's pretty scary!



That sounds a bit fishy too. Sorry to be negative, but if the hat doesn't turn out how you like, there will always be Art in time for next summer.

David

First, let me say that I am not without a little bit of trepidation myself.

Nevertheless, I should have explained a bit further about the blocker. I
have left out their name for now, as I would prefer to wait until completion before deciding whether they do good work or not and I certainly don't want to be critical of a business and people's livelihood needlessly.

When I got Panama Bob's hat and knew that Art was unavailable I realized I would have to find a blocker myself. As I said before, I have had experience with one hat blocker in NY and it was not positive. I had been to see Orlando at Worth and Worth, and I thought that he had very nice hats and blocks, but his hats were much, much more expensive. At the price range I was looking at, the quality, while nice, was nowhere near the level I wanted or that was available from Panama Bob. Once I decided that I wouldn't buy from Orlando, I didn't feel comfortable using him to block and trim (I might use him to reblock, though). Given his hat pricing, I thought everything else would be equally expensive as well. That left me with a continued research project.

While New York once had a thriving Men's hat manufacturing and retail industry, as you all know better than I, that is mostly gone. There are a few stalwart retailers left in Manhattan and that is where I went, hoping they could block and trim my hat. First I went to Knox (a/k/a Arnold's) on Eighth Avenue. They said they wouldn't touch it, but recommended a place in Brooklyn. I asked about the place I had used once before, and they confirmed that it has gone way downhill and that I went there after the current management had taken over (as an aside, it is rumored to have one of the largest collections of Men's hat blocks numbering in the thousands). Knox would not recommend them. The vitriol and contempt were palpable. When I mentioned Worth & Worth, the folks at Arnold's said they knew Orlando and that he also does blocking. He was in Italy, they told me, which I already knew and that while he has people in his workroom, they wouldn't be able to help me until he got back. For reasons I mentioned before, I didn't plan to use him anyhow. I called the place in Brooklyn and was reasonably comfortable that they could do a good job - one thing that did it is that when I asked for turnaround time, they said it would depend in part on the weather and humidity, as they had to let it dry and they don't heat dry the hats. I thought they were pricey and also would be much less convenient for me.

The next week, I stopped in at J.J. Hat Center on Fifth Avenue, which is perhaps the last classic NY hat shop (beautiful and worth a visit for the setting if not the hats). While they can steam and shape your hat while you wait, they can't block a Panama. They gave me two suggestions - Optimo and a place on 39th Street. I paid a visit to the latter.

This was a bit of a time warp, like so many places in NY's garment district. The place is overseen by a a grandma type and I dealt, with Dave, who appears to be someone's son-in-law and has been raised in the business. They have a few workrooms in an office building. You basically get off the elevator and walk into a factory. Their business is now largely the manufacture of women's hats as the men's business has pretty much disappeared. Their men's business is limited to blocking and cleaning for J.J. Hatters and Bergdorf Goodman. They sheepishly explained that the reason they don't have sweats anymore is that they are hardly ever needed. People don't wear their hats that long anymore and those that are in really bad shape just get replaced with a grosgrain ribbon. They had one nice leather sweat left, but it was too small even for my little head. The place was filled with the sound of hissing steam and generators. They also had hat blocks piled everywhere. Mostly women's in the front, but when I went in the back, they showed me shelves and shelves of men's blocks. He had a great one in my size for the crown, and then went shuffling through piles to find a nice shape for the brim. Since they didn't have a sweat, we spent a few minutes making phone calls to see if we could find one locally, with no luck. He told me to take my hat with me and he would see what he could find and I should do the same. About an hour later, I got a call from Dave, telling me he had found the supplier of the best sweats in the States, but they only take large orders and he wasn't sure he could commit to that many yet. In the meantime, he was getting samples but I should try calling them myself. I did, but got laughed at. Out of pity and laughter, I believe, they sent me one free of charge. They asked what color and thickness I wanted, so I just told them what I had on a current hat. They asked me about gold stamping or lines, and assuming that was just cosmetic, I told them I didn't care. The sweat arrived Friday by UPS. I don't think it is really the best in the world, as the stitching of the sweat on my Borsalino is a lot tighter and nicer, but the leather is quite nice and it is certainly good enough.

As some of you mentioned, the fact that I am using a blocker that has no sweats and hasn't seen a hat as nice as mine (and it is very nice, but is certainly not the absolute best available) is cause for concern. I agree. On the other hand, I am somewhat comfortable that they know enough and will be careful enough not to cause my hat any harm. That is the most important thing. I also like the block they had.

I don't have a lot of options and they seem sincere and serious, so I thought I can give them a try. I will give you al a report when it is done, perhaps with pictures. If they do a good job, I will also give you the name.

 

[SHARPETOYS]

Good roan leather sweats.

You can order one or a hundred.

They are called Fern/Thatcher Co Inc. I-816-238-8720 Ask for Wanda. The 1 5/8 reeded Antique smooth is the way to go.

Cost $2.82 each. :cheers1: Root Beer

 

[dopey]

Thanks. My sweatband did arrive so I don’ t need another source for this go round.

Nonetheless, for my education can you tell me what the individual words in the spec “1 5/8 reeded Antique smooth� mean so I will know what I am looking at and what to look for next time.

 

[Canadave]

First, let me say that I am not without a little bit of trepidation myself...

After that explanation, I think you made a good move. Good luck, and let us know. (And thanks for doing the NYC legwork. It will save me some time on my next visit.)

David

 

[SHARPETOYS]

Here you go !!

Thanks. My sweatband did arrive so I don’ t need another source for this go round.

Nonetheless, for my education can you tell me what the individual words in the spec “1 5/8 reeded Antique smooth� mean so I will know what I am looking at and what to look for next time.

The 1 5/8 is the width of most Vintage sweats. The reeded part is how you put the sweat band together and the Antique smooth is the vintage color and most roan leather sweats are smooth.
I hope this helps in the future.
Regards,

Sharpey

 

[dopey]

The 1 5/8 is the width of most Vintage sweats. The reeded part is how you put the sweat band together and the Antique smooth is the vintage color and most roan leather sweats are smooth.
I hope this helps in the future.
Regards,

Sharpey

This helps, but take me all the way home - can you describe what reeded means or point me to a picture?

 

[SHARPETOYS]

This helps, but take me all the way home - can you describe what reeded means or point me to a picture?

Maybe this site will help you.


http://www.hatlife.com/know_your_trimmings.php

 

[dopey]

Maybe this site will help you.


http://www.hatlife.com/know_your_trimmings.php

It did, thanks. They sent me nice plump roan. It is reeded. I asked for 1.75 inches, though, and that is what I got. In brown, as I asked.

 

[Matt Deckard]

Welcome to the forum Dopey. It has been my as well that many hatters just haven't a clue about the market. The belief that people don't wear their hats enough to warrant good sweat bands is something i heard from Stetson as well when I talked to their management. Unless it's a cowboy hat, they are clueless. Other hatters focus on themselves and close their eyes to the competition which lets hatters that were smaller in the past become global because of an understanding of the market... look at Akubra.

This forum is the place to share your stories, and I hope that with more people coming into the fold, we can spread the word that high quality hats are not as rare as many people are led to believe. You still run into the hatter here and there that thinks they are the best thing since the zipper was created, though after showing them that they have competition they tend to open their eyes.
I had this experience at Gelot in Paris.

Skilled are Art Faucet and Graham at Optimo hats in the ways of th panama, and if you need a panama hat assmembler refference for the future, they are the ones I suggest.

 

[dopey]

UPDATE

After giving me the run-around for weeks, the hat guy I was using called me on Monday to tell me he had finished the blocking and I could come in and bring him the sweat and choose a ribbon. I went by today. As you can imagine, I had been pretty annoyed at the more than month-long delay. Every time I called, I was told that it wasn’t ready - the blocking takes a lot of time; they have to do it in two stages; etc. All of that is true, but what I am sure is also true is that I was simply not a priority. They are a manufacturing plant and the needs of one weirdo with a Panama kept getting shunted aside. As a result, I went over today expecting to be further pissed off.

My opinion changed when I saw my hat. It was still on the blocks, with a cord wrapped really tightly at the brim line to lock it onto the block and flange. The whole assembly was wrapped in a big plastic bag to keep it clean. The blocking looked beautiful. I had also forgotten what a gorgeous hat Panama Bob sent me. Because of the delay, I had bought one of PB’s less expensive versions and steam shaped and ironed it myself into a pretty nice hat. The first hat I had gotten was miles and miles ahead of the cheaper one. They are not even on the same continent.

I gave the hat guy the sweat and he asked me what kind of ribbon I wanted. He suggested a double bow, which is what I had wanted. He showed me a brown ribbon he had already picked, and I suggested that since this was a really nice hat, I wanted something distinctive. That is when the fun began. This factory had been in the same place since it opened in 1950. We started going through cartons of ribbons and I know some of them were probably bought in their first week of business. He had some really cool brown ribbons that were pleated or stitched. And another one that had shadow striping in strips at the bottom. I wanted something in the blue or gray family, though, so we kept looking. We found some gray/blue ones, also with fancy stitching or details, but those were too narrow. Even his grandmother started to help us, and she came up with some nice ribbed silk, but those were black. Finally, I found a really nice midnight blue ribbon in all silk. Most of the others were Rayon/Cotton blends. It has a slight shimmer and the color is blackish tinted with an electric blue. It will seem both ordinary looking and not at the same time.

I am supposed to pick up the final product next week and will post another report when I do.

 

[BellyTank]

Nice choice!
Dark blue looks sharp on a Panama-
Black is kinda standard, a nice dark Blue has a bit of flair and class-
B
T

 

[Panamabob]

Great story.

Thanks to several people here I'm getting to know hatters all across the country who were believing the stories of the Montecristi demise.

I leave Tuesday, so if anyone wants a special hat I'm listening.

I've got loads of stories to tell the weavers and middlemen.