Good Wear Ventura / Imperial vs. ELMC Californian

[Robbie79]

Hey Guys,

Due to the long lead time on GW jackets, I was searching for an alternative jacket and thought that ELMC Califonian could be an option for me. What do you think, from stitching quality/accuracy, horsehide quality, general quality point of view? Besides the long lead time (currently >3 years) I've only heard positive things about John and its superb workmanship. Perhaps there are owners of both here?
Or do you have another company in mind offering a similar / same quality at a similar price?

Thanks and regards,
Robbie

 

[willyto]

Eastman does amazing products. I don't think anyone could say anything against them in that regard. The only problem as of now is that the prices have been raising during the last years but other than that they offer a top product with beautiful leather and designs so if you like them you can just buy a jacket and you'll be very happy.

Also worth mentioning that you can try them on and exchange size if needed.

I own two of their leather jackets. One A-2 and a black German WWI 3/4 lenght coat, the latter is just amazing.

 

[lina]

The person to ask is @tmitchell59 ...

 

[lina]

Hey Guys,

Due to the long lead time on GW jackets, I was searching for an alternative jacket and thought that ELMC Califonian could be an option for me. What do you think, from stitching quality/accuracy, horsehide quality, general quality point of view? Besides the long lead time (currently >3 years) I've only heard positive things about John and its superb workmanship. Perhaps there are owners of both here?
Or do you have another company in mind offering a similar / same quality at a similar price?

Thanks and regards,
Robbie

Also might want to consider Dave Sheeley, who posts occasionally here as @Maverickson. He makes his own jackets to a very high quality. I did a custom ordered jacket with him and he spent a lot of time getting the design just right for me. He currently has a jacket similar to what you are thinking about listed on ebay, though the size may not work for you:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/MONARCH-WA...h=item1a68447f91:g:RVkAAOSwR2RZ8Nfw:rk:7:pf:0

 

[Superfluous]

GW offers full customization, whereas Eastman only offers two variants -- regular and long (one inch longer). GW also incorporates certain details and stitching methods that are not found on the ELMC jackets.

The Italian HH used for the Californian is slightly lighter than Shinki HH or the Italian HH that GW also offers. I personally like the thickness/weight of the ELMC HH, but it is lighter than most other HHs discussed here. You should handle an ELMC jacket before you pull the trigger.

I love the ELMC Californian and came within inches of buying one/two -- I continue to entertain the prospect. My biggest hang-up -- and this is a product of my out of control OCD -- is the height of the hand warmer pockets. To my untrained eye, the hand warmer pockets seem slightly too high. That said, every time @ProteinNerd and @Thuggee rock their Californians, I drool incessantly. One day I will get over the pocket height and pull the trigger.

In closing, as much as I absolutely love my GW Imperial and Modoc, I would definitely consider a Californian given the current wait time for a GW jacket. Better yet, place a deposit for a GW AND purchase a Californian to hold you over while waiting for the GW. Then, when you receive the GW, you can decide whether to keep both or sell one. My bet is that you will keep both.

 

[GregO]

If this tells you anything - I sold my walnut ELMC to ProteinNerd, and just bought the exact same jacket in black. I only let the Walnut go because the fit in the sleeves was just a little off for me. Eastman is first rate. The leather they use on the Californian is just the perfect weight for a relatively easy wearing jacket. And the collar construction is the absolute best in the business on that jacket -- I love how the collar looks when worn.

Also agreed that the hand warmer pockets are a bit too high on it.

Most importantly, I like the pattern on the ELMC better. I don't like the flared waist of the GW Ventura or the collar as much.

The ELMC is a pretty slim fitting jacket as well. If you've got the body type that work with it, it is a very flattering jacket when worn. Slim. Svelte. Just nice.

 

[tmitchell59]

My Cali is gone, the GW Imperial is in the closet. I also owned a ELMC Cali in Havana size 46. This Walnut is a size 44. I believe the GW is a size 46.

The main difference is not quality of materials or workmanship it is design and fit. The GW Ventura is a better match with the ELMC Cali. The Cali and the Imperial are very different jackets worn.

 

[Fanch]

I have no experience with ELMC but do have with John Chapman. I bought my Californian Ventura from him a couple of years ago and have found it is one of my most useful jackets. It was made from a special run with which John disassembled on old Ventura in size 44 and sent the patterns to Himel Bros. to be made. I found the jacket fits me as well as any jacket I have ever owned, including ones tailor made for my anatomic proportions. Even fits me better than it did John!

My Ventura was made from dark brown Shinki horsehide that is a bit stiffer than the Vicenza Aero uses but has a nice hand and drape. You will notice from my pictures that there are no wrist buckles as John forgot to send them to Himel! However, I prefer them not present - just decorative and something to snag on. I also like the flaring just above the belt since it provides a certain level of additional comfort, and even allows me to wear my iPhone at my belt with the zipper closed, unlike with my Sheenes.

 

[Guppy]

2+ years to wait for a Good Wear, vs. You can get an Eastman right now. Seems like no contest.

 

[tmitchell59]

Or do you have another company in mind offering a similar / same quality at a similar price?

Yes, depending on your size. I'm referring to a couple of pre owned jackets. Not mine.

 

[Robbie79]

Yes, depending on your size. I'm referring to a couple of pre owned jackets. Not mine.

Unfortunately, my size is 38 to 40....

 

[Robbie79]

Thanks for your valuable input. On his sale items list I've just found a Norshor Venture. I've read Norshor and I think this is also a jacket maker, isn't it? If the quality of leather and workmanship is same as GW, I'll try to contact them. I found their website and the NS2 model looks good but they don't offer HH (neither Shinki nor Italian)...
http://norshorleather.wixsite.com/norshorleather1/collection

 

[ton312]

If you've read any of the threads regarding the current state of affairs with GW...it would be very hard for me to understand why you would even consider that route. Unless your goal is to simply order a jacket but never actually wear it.

 

[willyto]

Thanks for your valuable input. On his sale items list I've just found a Norshor Venture. I've read Norshor and I think this is also a jacket maker, isn't it? If the quality of leather and workmanship is same as GW, I'll try to contact them. I found their website and the NS2 model looks good but they don't offer HH (neither Shinki nor Italian)...
http://norshorleather.wixsite.com/norshorleather1/collection

As far as I know Norshor sells now through the Good Wear sales page: http://www.goodwearleather.com/pages/sale.html

Personally I would go the RTW route and enjoy your jacket, whatever the maker is. Wear it and then learn how you like your jacket to fit, only then If you want some customization then buy a MTO jacket or go the custom route.

 

[Robbie79]

If you've read any of the threads regarding the current state of affairs with GW...it would be very hard for me to understand why you would even consider that route. Unless your goal is to simply order a jacket but never actually wear it.

No, I haven't read the thread since I was not online for months before I decided to follow the threads here again...perhaps not a good idea for my bank account ;-)

 

[Robbie79]

GW offers full customization, whereas Eastman only offers two variants -- regular and long (one inch longer). GW also incorporates certain details and stitching methods that are not found on the ELMC jackets.

The Italian HH used for the Californian is slightly lighter than Shinki HH or the Italian HH that GW also offers. I personally like the thickness/weight of the ELMC HH, but it is lighter than most other HHs discussed here. You should handle an ELMC jacket before you pull the trigger.

I love the ELMC Californian and came within inches of buying one/two -- I continue to entertain the prospect. My biggest hang-up -- and this is a product of my out of control OCD -- is the height of the hand warmer pockets. To my untrained eye, the hand warmer pockets seem slightly too high. That said, every time @ProteinNerd and @Thuggee rock their Californians, I drool incessantly. One day I will get over the pocket height and pull the trigger.

In closing, as much as I absolutely love my GW Imperial and Modoc, I would definitely consider a Californian given the current wait time for a GW jacket. Better yet, place a deposit for a GW AND purchase a Californian to hold you over while waiting for the GW. Then, when you receive the GW, you can decide whether to keep both or sell one. My bet is that you will keep both.

Thanks for your helpful advice! I've sent three e-mails to John in the last 5 days and tried to call him twice today....no answer, yet....he doesn't seem to accept any new order. I personally prefer your idea to order a ELMC now and to pay a deposit to GW

 

[Robbie79]

My Cali is gone, the GW Imperial is in the closet. I also owned a ELMC Cali in Havana size 46. This Walnut is a size 44. I believe the GW is a size 46.

The main difference is not quality of materials or workmanship it is design and fit. The GW Ventura is a better match with the ELMC Cali. The Cali and the Imperial are very different jackets worn.

@tmitchell59 Thanks, very nice - the color of the GW looks amazing!

 

[ProteinNerd]

If this tells you anything - I sold my walnut ELMC to ProteinNerd, and just bought the exact same jacket in black.

Adding to this, I while I have @GregO’s previous jacket, I also have one in Black, they are that nice!

I’m still currently in the GW queue for a Modoc and I’m sitting at 3 years and 11 months since I paid my deposit....with no communication in over a year (September 2017) when he emailed me and said he was going to call me that week...I guess its been a long week.

Save yourself the hassle, life is too short to wait for a jacket that may never arrive. Grab a Cali now, you wont regret it.

 

[willyto]

You said you were a 38-40 chest. Check this one and the measurements.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Eastman-...h=item3d7ba5e78f:g:~sUAAOSwEp5b~Vhp:rk:6:pf:0

We are here to enable and you won't get away.

 

[Robbie79]

You said you were a 38-40 chest. Check this one and the measurements.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Eastman-...h=item3d7ba5e78f:g:~sUAAOSwEp5b~Vhp:rk:6:pf:0

We are here to enable and you won't get away.

Thanks! Beautiful!