family members on the "wrong" side

[dhermann1]

That story is straight out of "The Sound of Music". Whoo.
I have a friend who was born in France in 1939, and was there during the war, in the German occupied area. He was too little to have any idea what it was all about, but he does remember a cousin, who was in the resistance, hiding in the kitchen as the Maqui (the French secret police) tried to find him. He hid under the table with a knife in his hand. They eventually left.
He also described seeing the entire sky, from one horizon to the other, filled with allied bombers on their way to bomb Germany. The whole sky was roaring.

 

[Spitfire]

I am with you on the intersting family histories, Phantomfixer.
Here's one from Denmark:

My father was a young man - from a ordinary, conservative family - when the Nazis occupied Denmark.
A lot of danes (civil as well as armypersonnel) had signed up to help Finland against the Soviet aggression and the Winter War. But never came to fight there, because it ended before they got into the fight.
They did it - and even he thought about it - because the Soviet Union was "the common enemy" back then.
And even the Nazis helped Finland.
After the occupation of Denmark he was drafted into the danish army for some time - and in the army there were officers and NCOs who had signed up for the Winter War in Finland. They now saw a new chance of "fighting for freedom and against communism", by joining up in special created danish Waffen SS units fighting on the Eastern front.

My father (luckily) did not sign up - like some of his friends and ex-soldierbuddies did. He went the other way - and fought against the Nazis in Denmark.
He was close to arrest and torture several times and each time had to go "underground" for some time before joining up again with other resistancegroups. And I know for certain he was involved in som pretty horrible things, some of which he hasn't even told me. (Killing collaborators and informers etc.)

When the war finally ended and the resistance movement could be counted, it proved that there had been more danes fighting communism in Waffen SS, than danes fighting nazism in Denmark. Kind of sad? Yes!

But as he says (He's 90 years old today - but sharp as a razorblade):

"They did what they believed in - on the wrong team.
(And even the danish government who collaborated with the nazis in the beginning at least, supported the idear of the Danish SS Divisions)
It was a matter of being with the right sort of guys at the right moment.
A flip of a coin, really.
Afterwards we all know who were good and who were bad - but at the exact day, when you had to make up your mind, who knows?
I just did what I felt was right - and what some of my other friends felt was right.
But who knows - with my conservative background and armytraining, I could just as well had gone the other way. I am glad I did not."

So am I!

 

[kampkatz]

My cousin married a man who emmigrated from Germany in the early 1950's.
He had been in the Hitler Youth until towards the end of the war when he was old enough to enlist in the Kriegsmarine. No one in our family has ever had a problem with his background. My father, who served in the USAAF, and he had a good friendship.

 

[WH1]

Interesting to know about family histories. Spitfire how much of your father's history has been documented? In this day and age most people forget that the Soviets were considered the bigger threat by most of europe in the post WW1 era. The US even engaged in a military campaign against the Reds during and after WW1.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polar_Bear_Expedition
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Expeditionary_Force_Siberia

Last year I spent quite a bit of time with the Polish Airborne Brigade and quickly discovered how deep their hatred of the Russians is. They are very quick to mention that their family opposed the Soviets during World War 2 and many will tell you that the Russians are not to be trusted EVER! They all know the history of the Katyn Forest attrocities within the Polish military.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katyn_Massacre

 

[Chainsaw]

Dhermann, you'd like the stories from WWI better. Russia was one of the most beautiful kingdoms in the world, under Tsar Nicholas.

And WH1, there isn't necesarily that much hatred towards the Russians, it's more respect/hate/love. You have to feel sorry for them really, all the best bloodlines were erased, and then all the peasants were also killed (20million?).

There was much hatred towards the Ukranians after WWII. They were seen as the ones that did all the dirty work for the Nazis. Most of my friends and family, that came from Communist Poland (besides poor manners (no offense to my friends) communism took every thing good from the people) have a real lack of knowledge of WWII. I guess there was no need to keep the fueds going.

It's funny, were all friends now.

 

[Phantomfixer]

I agree that all these stories need to be written down and passed on to others. Our grandparents did so much. Great stories all keep them coming in. Spitfire you are a heck of a writer. I'm hopeful that your story is written down or otherwise recorded. Very exciting. I wonder if these vets feel like they are beig judged? They did what they had to do at the time. It was a matter of survival.

 

[David Conwill]

The father of one of the secretaries in my office was in the Afrika Corps, I believe he spent a large part of the war as an American POW, and emigrated in the 1950s.

One of my great-grandmothers had the maiden name of Bruhn, the other of Moelmann. I'm sure some distant cousins were on the other side in the big one, but I have no idea who they were.

-Dave

 

[Spitfire]

I agree that all these stories need to be written down and passed on to others. Our grandparents did so much. Great stories all keep them coming in. Spitfire you are a heck of a writer. I'm hopeful that your story is written down or otherwise recorded. Very exciting. I wonder if these vets feel like they are beig judged? They did what they had to do at the time. It was a matter of survival.

My father has written down his story of the war for my two sons (and me)
I translated some of the more important details and posted them here some time ago.
If any of you are interested in a part of WWII one seldom hear about. The war in the occupied countries, you can read it here: http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?t=24020
(Sorry to bump this again - it might seem like I find both him and his story terribly important. I do not however - only trying to be helpfull to new members, who show an interrest.)

 

[WH1]

My father has written down his story of the war for my two sons (and me)
I translated some of the more important details and posted them here some time ago.
If any of you are interested in a part of WWII one seldom hear about. The war in the occupied countries, you can read it here: http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?t=24020
(Sorry to bump this again - it might seem like I find both him and his story terribly important. I do not however - only trying to be helpfull to new members, who show an interrest.)

Spitfire always very interested in your posts and I hadn't seen this before and it is fascinating to read a first hand account.

 

[Guttersnipe]

Not exactly WW2...

...but a friend of mine, who is originally from Seville, Spain had a grand father who was a member of the Flange de Espana (the fascist party) who fought in a blue-shirt militia unit during the Spanish Civil War. My friend is somewhat embarrassed, not just by that, but also by the fore mentioned fellow's social/political views - which he unapologetically held until the end of his life.

 

[Phantomfixer]

Thanks Spitfire just the stuff I am looking for.
JZ

 

[Smithy]

Nothing in my family.

But I had a mate at uni whose mother remarried a chap would had been Hitler Jugend and had been involved in the Battle of Berlin. And another fellow at school had a great uncle who was Waffen-SS on the Eastern Front.

Chainsaw,

Many, many Poles have a huge dislike for Russians, and also Germans. I never realised the depth of this until I lived in Europe for the first time. Sadly (but perhaps it could be described as understandable) this is still very prevalent today.

 

[WH1]

Among the polish paras I worked with in Afghanistan the surest way to get a possible butt kicking was to say they were just like the russians. Major insult to them,don't know about the rest of Poland but those boys HATED them.

 

[Chainsaw]

I hear you Smithy, that's why we came to Canada Via England. We almost ended up in your neck of the woods, ( Australia ) no winter time though. Christmas wouldn't have been the same.

We still have land in Poland that we could go and claim, bloody Communists. We lost a big chunk of our country thanks to Roosevelt's wheelin' n' dealin' too.

WH1 it depends if your talking about Russians or communists. Theres a big difference. It's the same thing with any European country, I almost smacked this hungarian buddy with a shovel, because he said to me, "Oh yeah, in WWII we came in with the Germans, and their tanks, and there were you Polls fighting us from horse back with swords." That's the way she goes though.

 

[Smithy]

I hear you Smithy, that's why we came to Canada Via England. We almost ended up in your neck of the woods, ( Australia ) no winter time though. Christmas wouldn't have been the same.

You have no idea how much I miss Norway come Christmas time

 

[Trotsky]

Funny story: When Operation Paperclip Scientists were re-stationed in Huntsville in the 1950s many became community leaders. At a School Board meeting somebody asked one of the Germans about his war service and he stated that "He was a veteran too!" because of his Luftwaffe Service. He was elected by a landslide.

 

[dhermann1]

Among the polish paras I worked with in Afghanistan the surest way to get a possible butt kicking was to say they were just like the russians. Major insult to them,don't know about the rest of Poland but those boys HATED them.

I believe there was a saying among the Poles. When both Germany and Russia were gobbling up their country in 1939, when asked if they'd rather kill Russians or Germans, they said "Russians, pleasure before duty."
Let's hope that's all behind us now.

 

[TomS]

I had an uncle who fought with the Wehrmacht in WWII. He died near Lake Lagoda (on the Easter Front) in 1943. He is buried in a German military cemetary in Russia.

 

[Phantomfixer]

I suppose it was the German army who sent my grandmother a christian burial card when my uncle was killed in 44. It had his picture in uniform dates enlisted and died. Rank and duty stations and where killed. A brief couple of words about him being a father and son and good soldier etc. Not sure of the exact translation. Anything like that Tom?

 

[Sgt Brown]

The story of the Danes fighting both against and with the Germans makes me think of another interesting situation from the other side of the globe.

During WWII, India was one of England's staunch allies. Many Indian divisions fought the Germans in N Africa and, of course, against the Japanese. However, there was a pro-Japanese, pro-independence organization known as the Indian National Army that was raised to fight against the British. In the final tally, it was pretty ineffectual. However, the irony of the situation is that, today, INA veterans receive a pension from the Indian government while Indians who fought with the British receive nothing from their country.

Tom