Effort required in maintaining veg tanned leather jacket? Plus aging question

[Lit Up]

Lewis Leathers is selling veg tanned cowhide versions of its jackets for a £450 premium compared to its horsehide jackets. A group of us from the forum checked it out in person and some were impressed.

However the steep price difference between the horsehide and the veg tanned jackets has got me wondering.

1) what kind of maintenance is required on this jacket compared to the horsehide?

2) how will it age? will it look like shit and lose its appearance if I don't maintain it, compared to the horsehide?

Unfortunately, when directing this question to Lewis, they said that they didn't know, because the jacket has only been released and so there are no used examples anywhere.

For the extra £450 I do not fancy the risk at this time in the absence of knowledge. Any insight appreciated

Thanks

 

[sweetfights]

I would love to hear answers on this too.

 

[Carlos840]

Lewis Leathers is selling veg tanned cowhide versions of its jackets for a £450 premium compared to its horsehide jackets. A group of us from the forum checked it out in person and some were impressed.

However the steep price difference between the horsehide and the veg tanned jackets has got me wondering.

1) what kind of maintenance is required on this jacket compared to the horsehide?

2) how will it age? will it look like shit and lose its appearance if I don't maintain it, compared to the horsehide?

Unfortunately, when directing this question to Lewis, they said that they didn't know, because the jacket has only been released and so there are no used examples anywhere.

For the extra £450 I do not fancy the risk at this time in the absence of knowledge. Any insight appreciated

Thanks

I have no direct experience with that leather, but i don't see why it would require different maintenance or age differently than any other veg tanned leather with a non dyed core.
It looked like very nice leather to me, much nicer than their horsehide, and i wouldn't hesitate to go for it.

Keep in mind that no one knows much about the LL horsehide, or how it will look in 10 years, it is a new offering that has been available maybe a couple years. Historically LL has used cowhide for pretty much everything they made.
Going for the horsehide is IMO as much a "risk" as going for the veg tanned cowhide.

 

[Lit Up]

Going for the horsehide is IMO as much a "risk" as going for the veg tanned cowhide.

Well... it's £450 less of a risk. That's where the risk is.

 

[dannyk]

I know traditionally veg tanned leathers are a little more sensitive to the environment aka snow, water and sunlight, and because of that will fade, wear, and give the leather more of a tea-core effect without being tea-core. But having said that obviously were all brand new to this specific leather and I dont think anyone will have any clue until someone here gets their hands on one. a 450 dollar upcharge thought is a bit steep for something we dont know about.

 

[HoosierDaddy]

What is LL's explanation for such an expensive upcharge for the veg tanned leather? They should have a good reason for it being so pricey.
HD

 

[HoosierDaddy]

My tan Thedi jacket is veg tanned but finished with bees wax and an antiquing wash. The bees wax seems to give it very durable permanent surface that is quite pleasing. Surely LL's veg tanned leather is treated to resist soaking up water and outside elements some veg tanned leather is known for.
HD

 

[Lit Up]

What is LL's explanation for such an expensive upcharge for the veg tanned leather? They should have a good reason for it being so pricey.
HD

The extra money is for the "tanning process" which is more labour intensive, apparently. But there is very little information on the ground in Lewis. They do not have many (any) of these in store any more (at least they didn't before Christmas when I last went in) and honestly there is a big disconnect often between new offerings from Derek and the info they have in the shop. The guys in the shop had very little answers when I asked them more about this kind of leather, hence why I'm asking about it here...

What other questions should I be asking about this jacket, particularly what justifies the extra price? Maybe I can shoot them another email.

 

[Lit Up]

give the leather more of a tea-core effect without being tea-core

sorry for being slow but what exactly is tea core?

 

[HoosierDaddy]

My explanation of tea core concerning veg tanning is the top color fading or wearing to another shade or color.

 

[Lit Up]

Oh right. Like "blackened brown" with Aero? fades to brown or whatever.

 

[dannyk]

sorry for being slow but what exactly is tea core?

Its an overdye process. A lot of brands offer it now like even Aero, but its very popular with the Japanese makers. Overdye meaning you have a base color lets say light brown or natural and you dye it black on top of that, not all the way through just a top coat. So when it fades, creases, or gets scratched the color underneath shows through. It goes by tea-core because of the translation from Japanese to English somehow gets garbled into tea-core. So a lot of veg tanning by nature has a similar effect because its susceptible to water, and sun. As @HoosierDaddy mentioned Thedi has veg tanned but he finishes his with a beeswax wash. CXL leather is designed to hold up to elements and hold its color longer, veg tan is not unless it has some sort of coating over it like Thedi.

 

[dannyk]

But Ill add that doesnt mean veg tan is weak or bad. When I say susceptible to water or sun and it fades quicker than CXL thats all true but its not like it happens overnight it can take years. Unless you get a tea-core model which is designed to do it much quicker. I dont mind some tea-core models that still hold their colors for a long time...but man some of them these days age so fast they look a decade old in 6 months. Back to the main point a lot of veg tan jackets and boots are absolutely beautiful and the patina veg tan gets is great. Just again doesnt hold as long as CXL and some if you get caught in a downpour or something can get very funky looking.

 

[Lit Up]

if you get caught in a downpour or something can get very funky looking.

For a £1,250 jacket or whatever it costs, that's not good enough!

Not sure what type of horsehide LL is using though, does anybody know?

 

[Carlos840]

But Ill add that doesnt mean veg tan is weak or bad. When I say susceptible to water or sun and it fades quicker than CXL thats all true but its not like it happens overnight it can take years. Unless you get a tea-core model which is designed to do it much quicker. I dont mind some tea-core models that still hold their colors for a long time...but man some of them these days age so fast they look a decade old in 6 months. Back to the main point a lot of veg tan jackets and boots are absolutely beautiful and the patina veg tan gets is great. Just again doesnt hold as long as CXL and some if you get caught in a downpour or something can get very funky looking.

Not sure i agree with some of that.
CXL is designed to fade pretty fast, it shows wear much faster than many veg tan leathers.
Brown CXL will get scratched easily by my fingernail, black CXL slightly less so. Comparatively the veg tan leather ELMC used on my Californian is super tough, and i have some black veg tan leather that i literally cannot mark with my fingernail at all.

I don't think veg tan vs chrome tan vs combination tan gives all the story without taking into account the top coat and how the leather was designed to be used and to age.

 

[dannyk]

Not sure i agree with some of that.
CXL is designed to fade pretty fast, it shows wear much faster than many veg tan leathers.
Brown CXL will get scratched easily by my fingernail, black CXL slightly less so. Comparatively the veg tan leather ELMC used on my Californian is super tough, and i have some black veg tan leather that i literally cannot mark with my fingernail at all.

I don't think veg tan vs chrome tan vs combination tan gives all the story without taking into account the top coat and how the leather was designed to be used and to age.

All true. I guess what I was trying to say is that because of the dye process of cxl it is supposedly based on all ive ever read be better in the elements. The top coat of finish definitely can fade fast and be damaged, and the pull up effect as we all know. Where Veg tan doesnt have that. Its one color and its consistent. Ive just always read that because of how it reacts to the elements it can fade, or be discolored much easier. SO CXL can handle water, snow and sun better, but Veg is one color and consistently so. Again thats just what Ive always been told. But you can throw all of that out the window to your last point the most important really HOW WAS IT FINISHED AND WHAT IF ANYTHING WAS APPLIED AS A TOP COAT. That really will determine everything.

 

[Monitor]

I have a jacket made from veg tanned leather and I can tell you straight away it'll absorb rain drops quicker than any other chrome jacket I own. That's including the ones without the top coat.
Then again, veg tanned leather can still have a heavy protective finish so it doesn't mean anything and all but the one I got, it does seem to stain in the rain quite readily.

No leather is really all that great at being water resistant and any kind will get soaked sooner or later.

I can also tell you that while it did get soaked sooner, water didn't seem to have any noteworthy effect on it - or any at all. Didn't help with softening the leather, either.

All these hides are put thru an extreme stress while being tanned. Like, extreme. The stuff we couldn't even emulate at home. So it's going to take you a lot more than an occasional stroll thru a downpour to damage it and really I wouldn't expect it to look like crap. I mean, I haven't handled it obviously but I doubt it LL would use something so bad.

In short, I wouldn't worry about it.

 

[Carlos840]

All true. I guess what I was trying to say is that because of the dye process of cxl it is supposedly based on all ive ever read be better in the elements. The top coat of finish definitely can fade fast and be damaged, and the pull up effect as we all know. Where Veg tan doesnt have that. Its one color and its consistent. Ive just always read that because of how it reacts to the elements it can fade, or be discolored much easier. SO CXL can handle water, snow and sun better, but Veg is one color and consistently so. Again thats just what Ive always been told. But you can throw all of that out the window to your last point the most important really HOW WAS IT FINISHED AND WHAT IF ANYTHING WAS APPLIED AS A TOP COAT. That really will determine everything.

CXL is good in the elements because it is soaked in waxes, it's basically the same principle as a waxed canvas, but using a hide instead of canvas.

I am not sure what you mean by "Veg tan doesnt have that. Its one color and its consistent" ?

 

[dannyk]

Sorry. I meant it doesnt have the oils and waxes hot stuffed to be good in the elements. And then the color aspect I meant CXL has the pull up effect because of the oils/waxes that makes the color variation, and depth. Where as veg tanned is a very consistent through out color. Whatever color it is, its that color nice and solid throughout. So veg doesnt have that pull up and doesnt have the waxes/oils that make it better in the elements.

 

[Blackadder]

It also depends on the dyeing process. Some dyeing process include a coating step. The coating protect the leather from environment like for example the "bookbinder" leather used on shoes. Also if the leather is dyed through black, I doubt you will be able to see any water stain even after standing in the rain.