Dating borsalino liner logos

[gcollins]

Hey folks, how precise do you think we can get in dating borsalinos (or any hat brand, for that matter) through the evolution of the hat liner logos?

Below I have links to a few liner logos. What do you think are the age of the hats through the logos? Let's try to fill in the gaps from the 20s to the present, if you have some to share.

What do you think are the ages of these logos/hats?

1. http://public.fotki.com/leikelin/borsalino_logos/borso_nutria4.html

2. http://public.fotki.com/leikelin/borsalino_logos/0a_1_b.html

3. http://public.fotki.com/leikelin/borsalino_logos/bogie_maltese_6.html

4. http://public.fotki.com/leikelin/borsalino_logos/vintage_mouse_grey_2.html

5. http://public.fotki.com/leikelin/borsalino_logos/ff_1_b.html

6. http://public.fotki.com/leikelin/borsalino_logos/silver1.html

7. http://public.fotki.com/leikelin/borsalino_logos/silverbelly_borso3.html

Regards,
G

 

[Damon Falzone]

Dating Borsalinos

After I purchased a Borsalino (a gray Torino) on ebay, I contacted Borsalino in New York City to see if they could tell me the age of the hat. I sent them a serial number I found on the hat. They promptly sent me a message. The first 2 numbers of the serial number correspond to the year of production. In my case, 75, 1975 being the year that the hat was made. If you carefully pull down the sweatband one side at a time so as not to damage anything and gently pick up the lining, again searching carefully, you should find a paper tag glued to the hat. There should be a serial number on that tag. Apparently my hat had never been worn in those 30 years... until now.
Pretty sweet! Damon

 

[K.D. Lightner]

Oh, wow, there is a paper tag in my first Borsalino and the serial number is has a serial number of 52379. Does that mean, then, that it was created in 1952? I did not even explore under the sweat band, and liner and did not know there were tags and serial numbers under there.

The second Borsalino, which looks just like the first, but is a somewhat lighter color, does not have a serial number, it looks like the sweat band was changed at one point and a paper tag is in there. Someone had written in ink, on the inside of the hat 4/58. I am wondering if that is when the sweat band was changed, if it was, or if someone wrote in the date of the hat purchase.

Either way, these are old beauties and I am glad to have them. Cool! Thanks for the info. I hope it is absolutely true -- my hats had been identified by a hatmaker as at least 50 years old. He nailed it, looks like.

karol

 

[fedoralover]

Interesting, then that means I have one from 1925, 41, and 51. However another one says 87 and I find that hard to believe, as its not that much different than than the one from 51. But hey it's as good as information as we will probably get on the subject.

fedoralover

 

[Brad Bowers]

Aha! I emailed Borsalino, and they never got back to me. At least I know now. After some research, I had figured my Borsalino to be mid to late '40s. Turns out I was right on the money, as the serial number puts it in 1948. I'm guessing the number 48787 means my hat was the 787th hat they made in '48, at least in that line.

Cool, and thanks!
Brad

 

[K.D. Lightner]

I hadn't thought of the last three numbers. Mine, then, was the 379th of that particular Borsalino (and color?) made in 1958 if that is true.

I just dismantled my third Borsalino, which was purchased in the early 90's. The leather sweat band states it is made of "100% blend of hare and wild rabbit fur." It is just an OK hat and I paid $95 for it. They are pricier now, but just as shoddy. There is no tag that has serial numbers on there, but there is a strip of white tape-like material with some weird numbers on it -- but nothing that looks like a serial number.

Wonder if it was counterfeit. Does anyone know if hats have ever been counterfeited?

Oh, well, I know when I bought that one and it is not a quality hat as are my older, vintage hats.

karol

 

[Matt Deckard]

The coding knowledge is cool if it is true, now when I get home I have to check out my Borsy's. I think there is a differenct between the liners of the European models vs. the American market models.

 

[gcollins]

A mystery revealed at last. I'll check out the hats and see if they correspond with my gut feel of the relative ages.

So let's check the liners and see if they correspond to the ages and the labels. Let's see yours?

thanks!
G

 

[jamespowers]

Geez, I couldn't get that information directly from Borsalino in Italy or the US.
I am glad you found a source willing to tell you something. I think you have really found some good information there. It sounds about right for the most part. The other tags tell you the style and size. It might be a little different for some models but I think you got good information from a source that blew me off. Good job. Thanks. Some where they also have a book that has listings for all the serial numbers and what they tell about the hat. Borsalino kept all its records---unlike Stetson. :rage:
I think I will go straight home for lunch now and check.

Regards to all,

J

 

[feltfan]

Not my Borsalinos

I'll be curious to hear what others find.

I just checked three vintage Borsalinos and only
one seemed likely to follow that code. The other
two are very unlikely. In particular, one that I would
swear was made in the 50s (lower crown, wide brim,
narrow "open road" style ribbon) would be from 1914 or
1929, depending on which group of numbers you use.
Not likely.

Perhaps Borsalino followed that practice during
certain decades and not others?

People should feel free to send me vintage Borsalinos
in size 7 1/2 or 7 5/8 and I will be glad to give you
my opinion free of charge... I might even pay you if they're nice.

 

[jamespowers]

Ah, you met with the same results as I did. Two of mine have a 1235 in them but I doubt they are that old based on their proportions. A 2 7/8 inch brim and a nearly 6 inch crown probably wouldn't fit into that era.
It sort of worked for a 1950 and a 1979 though. Perhaps that the date range where it makes sense although it came out right for a few others. Hmmm.... I think we still need that book of serial numbers and what they mean. There has to be one around somewhere. :kick:

Regards to all,

J

 

[gcollins]

Ah, interesting getting everyone's experience. How about the liner logos, do they match up with expectations of the date code or not. I seem to have some inconsistency as well in the date codes. the hat with the oldest logo (early 40s?), I had thought, fairly close to one that is from the 50s.

what do you think?

 

[Michael D]

Last night I checked out my two Borsalinos that we bought in Milan.

My charcoal grey qualita superiore which was purchased in 2000 indicates that it was made in '96. I suppose a hat could sit in the store for a few years before it gets sold, so this date seems reasonable. The other one, a 'country' model, indicates that it was made in '02. That one was bought in May 2003.

It looks to me like the dating scheme works for newer Borsalinos.

Mike

 

[jamespowers]

Ah, interesting getting everyone's experience. How about the liner logos, do they match up with expectations of the date code or not. I seem to have some inconsistency as well in the date codes. the hat with the oldest logo (early 40s?), I had thought, fairly close to one that is from the 50s.

what do you think?

Well, which logo did you think was older and what did the code say? The seventh, sixth, fourth and third are likely 40s Borsalino liners. The fifth and first look like 50s liners. The second is a 70s liner. Does that match the date codes assigned to the serial number?
Mine that look like that do not except for the one like your third pictured. It says 1950. That sort of places it at the cusp of the 40s but I am not sure that is correct either.

Regards to all,

J

 

[scotrace]

My recent Borsalino

Mine matches #4, and the code would indicate 1952? It's an "open road" kind of style with the small ribbon.

52954
MUFLONE

 

[Matt Deckard]

Going by my Off white Borsalino it would be a 1942 hat.

Strikes me that it would be an Italian hat made in the middle of the war and in the middle of rationing, and sold in the US.... hmmmm.

Thick felt with self welted edge, wind string and full liner.

I'm not sure this dating system is correct... Like with Fedoralovers 87 hat that looks like the 51 hat. I know haven't seen a hat made in the 80's by borsalino that could hold a candle to one made in the 50's.

Can you reconfirm the info about the labeling with Borsalino?

 

[Wild Root]

Good points Matt....

I have to agree with Matt. I have a Dobb's Cross Country and it has the original O.P.A. tag in it. The O.P.A. was a government group that regulated prices and rationing from 1942 to 1945. So, this Dobb's is a war time hat and I can sure tell that it is. Has no lining, very soft and light felt, you can tell it was rationed fabric.

I'm sure that Borsalino wasn't doing much trade with the U.S. in '42 seeing that they were an Axis power. I could be wrong though.

I used to have a few Borsalino’s but I don't any more. So, all I have are Stetson's, Dobb's, Mallory's and some off beat ones.

Root.

 

[jamespowers]

So, all I have are Stetson's, Dobb's, Mallory's and some off beat ones.

Never heard of Off Beat.

Regards to all,

J

 

[Wild Root]

Sure you have, they own "Never Heard of'em" brand hats. Also they have a line called "So and So" brand.

Root.

 

[jamespowers]

Hmmm... I have heard of Don't Know Brand and Stinko Brand but not the ones you mentioned.

Regards to all,

J