Date these Cavanagh Homburgs

[Lalla]

Hello boys! What a fantastic site!

Imploring the experts to help me date these two hats. They both belonged to my father (who was considerably older than my mother) and I imagine he purchased them sometime in the 50's long before my time. I know that he prized them because he and my mother got in an argument over whether to let me use one in a school play. But unfortunately I never got around to asking him their history.

(click on thumbs for larger view)
















The grey felt hat has his initials JWL in the inner leather band. I see the block numbers under the band but I have no idea what they mean time-wise:

(grey) A 101125 94

(fawn) S 53016 5288 53

Also, is it advisable to remove the lining to clean it, and if so, how do you clean it?

Thanks a bunch!

 

[feltfan]

I'm going to guess 1950s, but it's more of a feeling,
looking at the brim width, sweat band, boxes, and the
size tag in one of the hats. That liner style
was in use a long time. The style could have come from the
40s and was probably still made by Cavanagh in the 1970s.

They look to be very nice fedoras.

Oh, and the liners look okay, as vintage hats go. One looks
quite clean. Unless they smell funny, leave 'em. If you lift the
leather sweat band you'll see they are sewn in. If they smell
bad, you probably want to have the whole hat cleaned (and
if you do, have a look at the archives here to find a reputable
hat cleaner- don't just bring them to the dry cleaner!).

 

[Brad Bowers]

Beautiful hats, Lalla, and welcome to the Lounge! My gut feeling on them is also '50s, probably early- to mid-'50s. Cavanagh hats are certainly some of the finest hats, so cherish them! Also, these aren't Homburgs, they're fedoras. Snap down that brim in the front to show off those beautiful Cavanagh Edges!

Brad

 

[Mycroft]

Beautiful hats, Lalla, and welcome to the Lounge! My gut feeling on them is also '50s, probably early- to mid-'50s. Cavanagh hats are certainly some of the finest hats, so cherish them! Also, these aren't Homburgs, they're fedoras. Snap down that brim in the front to show off those beautiful Cavanagh Edges!

Brad

Really?

 

[Lalla]

Thanks for the help! Thanks for the education! Whoops, they're not homburgs, they're fedoras? All the better. (I thought perhaps the brim was too narrow for a fedora.) Wish they were my size. But am sure glad they're not circa 1976.

For fun, can you name any Hollywood sirens of the past who topped themselves off with one?

 

[feltfan]

But am sure glad they're not circa 1976.

I'm not sure when Cavanagh stopped making good hats.
It's possible they were still making hats like yours in 1976.
If they're good, they're good, and yours look to be good.

 

[Matt Deckard]

I would have to say 50's as well. The brim the crown and the possible plastic at the top of the liner and the box

Those, by the by, are Fedoras.

 

[Lalla]

Plastic at the top of the liner? No comprende.

I've been searching the internet for the history of the Cavanagh company and have come up with nada--suggestions?

 

[Brad Bowers]

In the later years, probably late-'50s or early-'60s onward, many hats came with a clear plastic layer across the top of the liner to protect the liners from oils, creams, pomades, etc., from my understanding.

I don't see one on the second hat, and I don't think the first has one, either.

As for Cavanagh history, yes, there's really nothing on the Internet. There may be something in some of the hat history books out there. Jamespowers is a good source for hat history, so he might chime in here. I know Cavanagh Hats, founded by John Cavanagh, was around in the early twentieth century, and might date back earlier than that. By 1950 they had been folded under the Hatco umbrella. The reinforced brim edge on your hats is the patented "Cavanagh Edge," a process John Cavanagh first patented in 1913, and then improved upon in 1931. It was licensed to many different hat companies, most of whom gave it their own name.

Brad

 

[feltfan]

I have never seen a Cavanagh with a plastic lining top, as
described by Matt. Lots of other companies did it, though.

The only thing I have come across regarding the Cavanagh
shop was an amusing reminiscence here:

http://www.cigaraficionado.com/Cigar/CA_Archives/CA_Show_Article/0,2322,556,00.html

I believe others have disputed the conclusion of the article,
but the stuff about how the old Cavanagh shop worked is
pleasant to read.

 

[MattC]

Cavanagh

I have seen one Cavanagh, which looked to be about from the mid 60s, that had clear plastic over the center of the liner. But in general, I think its true that Cav. never went in for that fad. Cavs were still being made in the early 70s (I know that is when my dad got his last one--he was a Cav fan from the mid 60s on).

I think Cavanagh pretty consistently stayed to a general "tapered high crown" look in the 50s, 60s until the end, with brims never more than 2.25 and never much less than 1 3/4". My guess on these two would be 50s or early to mid 60s.

These are gorgeous hats. My Dad had both of these colors.

 

[feltfan]

I think Cavanagh pretty consistently stayed to a general "tapered high crown" look in the 50s, 60s until the end, with brims never more than 2.25 and never much less than 1 3/4".

For the record, I have two Cavs with 2 3/4" brims. One is a
brown fedora and the other a western-style fedora (that could
have been blocked Open Road as well). The latter hat is pictured
somewhere on this site...

Interesting to hear they did go in, if briefly, for the plastic. Yech.

 

[MattC]

Wider brim

I'd guess those were older--early to mid 50s anyway. Don't you think?

 

[Lalla]

Thanks so much for your help, fellas! Think I'm falling in love now. Me an' fawn are headed to a motel for a long night of bashing.

 

[Brad Bowers]

Me an' fawn are headed to a motel for a long night of bashing.

That's more than we need to know!

Glad we could help.

Brad