Dancing -- styles, etc.

[dhermann1]

I saw Cab Calloway once saying "I'll never forget what Chick Webb did" to Benny Goodman at the Savoy when they had their legendary battle of bands. Webb trounced Goodman. Somehow, I believe Cab's version.
I just walked past the former site of the Savoy in Harlem the other day. It's now a supermarket in a large apartment complex. It's a nice complex, but I always heave a sigh when I go by there. BTW, the second most popular ballroom, The Renaisance Ballroom (AKA The Renny) is still sitting there waiting to be restored. It would be nice.
As far as all dance related discussions are concerned, hey everyone, just get out there and learn and enjoy yourselves!

 

[Paisley]

No Paralysis by Analysis!

I think this discussion shows how people get hooked on swing dancing: there's no end to how far you can take it. By the same token, you don't have to know calculus to add a column of numbers--and newbies don't have to know the history of swing music or nuances of styling to do a step, step, rock step.

 

[dhermann1]

Paisley : May I have the next one?

 

[Paisley]

Paisley : May I have the next one?

Next time you're in Denver, send me a PM!

 

[MrBern]

I'm not crazy about the music that goes w/ WestCoast Swing, but I think more leaddancers should learn the technique.
Its incredibly useful to learn how to dance in a 'slot' when the floor gets too crowded.

 

[reetpleat]

While there is some disagreement, I am of the opinion that west coast swing, evolved from west coast style lindy hop which was developed on the west coast to deal with crowded dance floors. The style is also popular now amongst the lindy hopperes who call it hollywood style or other names.

It is leaning out with the feet inward, most footwork is done within the circle of the partners, and the swing out is an oval or slot. I agree. YOu have a much better idea of where your partner is going .

Oddly, few people seem to conclude that carolina shag is derived from Lindy Hop, but watching some clips it seems pretty obvious it did, in the same way west coast swing did.

 

[resortes805]

While there is some disagreement, I am of the opinion that west coast swing, evolved from west coast style lindy hop which was developed on the west coast to deal with crowded dance floors. The style is also popular now amongst the lindy hopperes who call it hollywood style or other names.

It is leaning out with the feet inward, most footwork is done within the circle of the partners, and the swing out is an oval or slot. I agree. YOu have a much better idea of where your partner is going .

Oddly, few people seem to conclude that carolina shag is derived from Lindy Hop, but watching some clips it seems pretty obvious it did, in the same way west coast swing did.

Kinda-sorta, while WCS derives itself from smooth Lindy or Hollywood Lindy (basically's Dean Collins style) Dean himself certainly was'nt pleased with WCS or WCS dancers.

Most folks that identify with Hollywood lindy are emulating the pre-WCS of Collins, Jewel Mcgowan, Jean Veloz and others.

Ironically enough Dean Collins himself learned to dance at the Savoy, which makes him technically a Savoy dancer.

 

[reetpleat]

Kinda-sorta, while WCS derives itself from smooth Lindy or Hollywood Lindy (basically's Dean Collins style) Dean himself certainly was'nt pleased with WCS or WCS dancers.

Most folks that identify with Hollywood lindy are emulating the pre-WCS of Collins, Jewel Mcgowan, Jean Veloz and others.

Ironically enough Dean Collins himself learned to dance at the Savoy, which makes him technically a Savoy dancer.

I can imagine dc was not much of a fan of wcs. I think I have heard that. As for the rest, i concur. When I said the current style is evolved from "it" I meant from the original style west coast style lindy, not modern west coast swing. And yes, Collins was an east coast dancer. I have never really determined if Collins developed his slotted, outward leaning style on the EastCoast, in New Orleans, or in LA. ANd if he was the first to do it or jsut the first to popularze it.

Frankly, I am more of a fan of the black dancers from the east coast, (although I certainly appreciate Collins) but am more of a fan of the dancers that emulate Collins et al than the dancers who claim to adhere to the black style, because I have yet to see one who actually comes even close.

 

[olive bleu]

Well, bummer!

Everyone might have been focused on what they themselves were doing. Or they might have been afraid to say, "You know, there are some basic level classes here that might suit you better" for fear of offending you. Like pretty much anything else in life, you have to ask for what you want.

I hope you get back on the horse, Olive Bleu.

Oh, I am not blaming the other dancers at all, and i realize I should have asked the right questions.I will definitely try again, i kind of laugh at it now.

Can someone, in simple terms expalin though, what is the difference between east & west coast swing? Pardon my ignorance

 

[reetpleat]

The difference between east coast and west coast has been discussed variously in various posts and threads. But the best way to get a feel for it is go to youtube and see some videos of lindy hop, west coast swing and I imagine you can find east coast as well.

Be sure to watch enough to make sure you are getting an accurate feel.

East vcoast is a dance you cna do anywhere in the world with someone. It is also probably the easiest for beginners or people who do not know each other.

West coast is pretty specialized to west coast dancers. It's unique upright ballroomish style makes it a non favorite of mine.

 

[Paisley]

Other swing dances:

Charleston, described in an above post. There is 20s, 30s and 40s Charleston. You can do it with our without a partner.

Balboa, an close, upright dance you can do to fast music. It isn't a flashy dance, but more of a dance to enjoy your partner and the music.

Shag, another close, upright dance you can do to fast music. I don't do this dance, but it seems to involve a lot of hopping on one foot at a time. It looks fun, but too jarring for me.

Swop, a new dance combining swing and hip-hop. I've only seen this once. A troupe did a choreographed routine on TV--and it was one of the most difficult-looking routines I've ever seen. They did aerials, lindy, charleston, and of course hip hop (really not my favorite dance).

Shim-sham, a solo line dance involving various vintage jazz moves. There are also other choreographed solo dances that people usually do in groups: the Big Apple, the Tranky-doo, and others, I'm sure.

 

[dhermann1]

There's also Carolina Shag. Carolina Shag looks like it's probably the direct ancestor of West Coast swing, since it's a slot dance. I've seen a couple videos and demonstrations, and it's a really fun looking dance. The other dance I'd like to learn more about is the Collegiate. Collegiate was the direct ancestor of the Lindy. It was big around maybe 1931-32 . It's danced to the early rumpy tumpy quick paced swing music of the time. (Check out Fletcher Henderson circa 1932). It has the same basic step, but no swing outs or turns.
I've also always been interested in knowing exactly which dances were done with which music.
Oh, yes! There's also The Big Apple! I don't remember what that looks like, but I remember it's cool.

 

[Paisley]

The Big Apple

I don't know the Big Apple either, but they do it around here to "Flying Home" by Lionel Hampton. There are a lot of big, really old-school moves done in a circle, and at one point, the dancers stand side by side, across from their partners, make a "roof" with their arms, and other dancers run under under the "roof." It's fun to watch.

There was a movie with Ginger Rogers, I think it was, and she mentions the Big Apple.

 

[dhermann1]

I used to use Hamp's Flying Home on my answering machine. I sang "I'm not home, but leave me a message". I thought it was very clever.
I also once introduced Illinois Jacquet's band (he's on the big sax solo on Flying Home) on the stage at Roseland. That was a lifetime highlight.

 

[reetpleat]

There's also Carolina Shag. Carolina Shag looks like it's probably the direct ancestor of West Coast swing, since it's a slot dance. I've seen a couple videos and demonstrations, and it's a really fun looking dance. The other dance I'd like to learn more about is the Collegiate. Collegiate was the direct ancestor of the Lindy. It was big around maybe 1931-32 . It's danced to the early rumpy tumpy quick paced swing music of the time. (Check out Fletcher Henderson circa 1932). It has the same basic step, but no swing outs or turns.
I've also always been interested in knowing exactly which dances were done with which music.
Oh, yes! There's also The Big Apple! I don't remember what that looks like, but I remember it's cool.

I think people make a istake when they start assigning certain dances to certain dances to certain music. Certainly there are latin dances done to latin music, and such, but most swing dancers did whatever they did to most of the music htey heard. Very few people knew a lot of dances. They were just kids who danced the same way everyone around them did and they for the most part called it "dancing."

as far as the big apple, it is a called dance like square dancing. One person stands in the middle, and calls out various traditional dance steps, african american steps erived from african dance, often portraying various work or activities. Thee is picking cherries, shoveling coal, spank the baby (involves smacking your own butt gently) susie Q which looks like pulling a rope maybe, scratching an itch, shorty goeorge named for shorty george snowden etc. each would be done for eight counts.

Whitey's lindy hoppers did a choreographed routine as did many other dance troups, but half the fun is knowing all the steps and being able to do them as they are called out.

I have heard it attributed to dance troupe of white dancers, probably because it bears similarity to varios called traditional folk dances. But given the african american steps, I am suspicious of that. But who knows. Probably evolved organically from the tradition amongst blacks and whites throughout the south maybe.

 

[reetpleat]

Other swing dances:

Charleston, described in an above post. There is 20s, 30s and 40s Charleston. You can do it with our without a partner.

Balboa, an close, upright dance you can do to fast music. It isn't a flashy dance, but more of a dance to enjoy your partner and the music.

Shag, another close, upright dance you can do to fast music. I don't do this dance, but it seems to involve a lot of hopping on one foot at a time. It looks fun, but too jarring for me.

Swop, a new dance combining swing and hip-hop. I've only seen this once. A troupe did a choreographed routine on TV--and it was one of the most difficult-looking routines I've ever seen. They did aerials, lindy, charleston, and of course hip hop (really not my favorite dance).

Shim-sham, a solo line dance involving various vintage jazz moves. There are also other choreographed solo dances that people usually do in groups: the Big Apple, the Tranky-doo, and others, I'm sure.

Never heard of swop, but I have for years heard people speculate about "putting hip hop moves or styling into lindy." My reaction is to muse on how little they must know about traditional african american lindy hop. As far as I am concerned all the style and half the steps are there already. I used to watch soultrain late at night and loved the dancer showcase in which the best dancers would strut their stuff. I always wished i could see a few of them learn lindy. Then we would see some fantastic, authentic african american lindy hoppin.

I guess I am such a purist. I realized long ago that without the many years of background in African American dance, I would never be able to truly capture the authentic style, but I do my best. I will have to be content to emulate or at least strive to look as good as Dean Collins and other white dancers. I will never have that extra little style that only someone growing up in Harlem or other such places i nthe twenties can bring to it.

 

[Miss Neecerie]

Maybe we should change this thread to 'discussion of dance styles'....

As someone who once wanted to learn and pretty much failed at it....this thread just confuses me more then the simple straightforward 'hints on learning' that it started out as.....

hehehe..

 

[Paisley]

That's what I was afraid of.

Can you make another thread and move some of the posts over to it?

 

[Miss Neecerie]

Have notified the folks who can...


And I know how much people love to discuss the history of swing dancing! I wasn't criticizing that debate at all.

I just giggle whenever -any- swing dance topic eventually swerves to that side of things.....its sort of like the Godwin's law of swing dance...

 

[Nathan Flowers]

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Thread is a bit chopped up now, but the tips have been moved here:
http://thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?t=17588