Custom A2 and vintage leather jackets.

[Fatdutchman]

I'm thinkin' about getting a customized A2 from US Authentic ( www.flightjacket.com ). Now, it's gonna be a good while before I really get down to getting one (after buying several hats and with a Wested Indy jacket on the way...). The basic goatskin at $269, plus it has to be a tall size, which adds $31 for $300 even. Now, I am pretty sure I want to add the hundred bucks to customize the jacket. Like no epaulets, and I would really like to ditch the next-to-useless flapped patch pockets which are difficult to get your hands into and will barely hold a pair of gloves (one in each pocket..) and put in diagonal slash welt pockets (so I can put my hands in them!!! ) and a zippered small welt pocket on the left breast. This seems like a very conventional setup for the FEW original '30's and '40's jackets I have gotten to see. I want a common civilian type garment.

Now, I'm wondering about the cuffs. I am really not wild about the knit cuffs. I don't absolutely hate them, but would rather have something different if possible. For the sleeves, I would be satisfied with simple barrel cuffs: no buttons, straps or anything else. I hate buttons on cuffs. They hang up in EVERYTHING. Now, on old jackets, the norm (so far as I've seen) seems to be to have "barrel cuffs" but with a cinch strap attached to the outside about an inch up from the cuff, with buttons or a cinch/buckle/slide arrangement. But, what about the bottom cuff/hem of the garment? I never can really see in the few photos I have just what kind of deal was used. I do want the bottom of the jacket to be snugged up on my body, and the knit cuff does that well, but I kinda want something different and something that doesn't "look like an A2". Cinch straps? Take up tabs with buttons ala the common jean jacket?

I believe I've read where US Auth. will send you a standard jacket to try on to make sure everything fits fine and you send it back before they go working on a custom jacket for you. Is this right? It certainly sounds like a good idea.

I just don't have much to go on. Anyone have good photos of vintage civilian jackets or photos of your own modern made custom vintage style jackets to help me decide?

I only have a couple of not really revealing photos of my own of my grandfather and an unknown individual, which I posted here before. The first small photo is my grandfather, I'd say in the late '30's. The second is probably at the end of the war (since my grandfather is wearing his uniform with his medals on it).

 

[Maj.Nick Danger]

Why go through all that?
I mean, I see a lot of vintage jackets like the type you've described on ebay that are reasonably priced. Many are 70's or 80's vintage, but there are also jackets from the 30's through the 50's that might just fit your needs.
Sidvintage, (I think that's the name) is one seller that I recall offhand that has a lot of different styles.
You just might be able to find the perfect jacket for far less than you would pay for a custom job. Good luck.
( :eusa_doh: I sound like an ad for ebay,... )

 

[Fatdutchman]

I'm not crazy about ebay...

Besides, what are the odds of happening across ANYTHING in size 48 tall?...Not bloody likely

 

[Maj.Nick Danger]

I love ebay!

And I also hate it!
But you never know what you might find. [huh]
I saw pair of size 15 WW2 Officer's dress shoes the other day, still brand new and never issued.
I'll keep my eyes pealed for ya.

 

[Baggers]

Not meaning any offense, but it seems a bit odd to state that you want to get an A-2, and then want to modify it by changing everything about it that makes it an A-2. Why not buy a jacket that already has what you want? After figuring in the surcharges for your tall size and custom work, you're almost to the price point of a nice Aero Leathers bootlegger or HG5.

Wouldn't it be a lot easier find a company that already has a style that meets your specifications and might also make it in a tall for no additional fee instead of paying someone extra to do a major redesign of an existing style which they possibly might not do correctly? I can understand wanting to save a buck, but sometimes it just isn't worth the hassle you end up creating for yourself.

Cheers!

 

[Fatdutchman]

I do like some of Aero's offerings...especially the "Highwayman"...BUT, I ain't up to spending well over $600 on a jacket...or anything else right now for that matter. (the HG5 would be $811 !!!!! ) Are there any decent US manufacturers that make similar jackets?

As I'm lookin' at it now, I'm thinkin' about goin' with a custom A2 in russett horsehide (I HAVE to have that real brown color!) with no epaulets and just an added breast zip pocket.

 

[Baggers]

Okay, Aero was a bad example. It's been several months since I've bought anything from them and hadn't realised that the Dollar had slipped even further since then. But you see that there are vendors out there that are already making pretty much what you're looking for. You stated that you've bought a Wested? Did you know that they also make A-2s (they made the jackets for the movie Memphis Belle)? Perhaps Peter could take a whack at what you want and do the mods to one of his. His prices are definitely cheaper, although I believe he would need to charge some kind of design fee if they're extensive enough to warrant it.

In all fairness to U.S. Authentic, he did work wonders creating a custom version of an A-1 jacket for someone on the Vintage Leather Jacket forum. Custom fit, pocket placement, diferent knit collar than standard, used buttons the customer supplied, etc. Of course none of this required a major redesign such as you envision, more of a tweaking of the original pattern, but everyone was very pleased with the result.

Still, perhaps someone else will chime in here. I know there are other small U.S. makers out there, mainly caterers to the motorcycle rider trade, so maybe there's one that has something closer to what you want that won't require a total overhaul of an existing style.

By the way, that fedora you're wearing in your avatar looks suspiciously familar in addition to being just plain sharp. Is it an AB?

Cheers!

 

[Fatdutchman]

Not an AB, just a Miller "raider" hat, reworked...still actually a work in progress. I figger I'll go ahead and order an AB...as if I actually had the money to spare....

As for the price of a jacket, the $300-400 range is IT. There's no way I could (or would) ever pay more money for any individual article of clothing, no matter how "superior" the quality is supposed to be! If the average Joe in the '30's could afford a good quality leather jacket, then by golly, I ort to be able to also!!!

I like the A-1 very much, it doesn't "look like" an A2. I don't see where they offer the A1 in any leather other than horsehide (???). I am actually second guessing myself on the horsehide. I know it is supposed to be pretty heavy (I have never seen horsehide in my life...other than what was still movin' around!). Goatskin actually would suit me, but man, I hate that super-dark-almost-black "brown" that they always dye goatskin. I just want "brown"...is that so hard?

I want a civilian jacket. Something that would have been commonly worn by civilians in the '30's and '40's. I don't know how much the then-current issue A2 would have been available to the public. I've read that after the war, they were common as dirt, but before?

Heck, I don't really know exactly WHAT I want, which is why I posted this, hoping to get suggestions...

 

[Raymundo]

It sounds like the jacket you are looking for is what is commonly called a Raiders jacket (not Raiders Of The Lost Ark). San Diego Leather makes one with two zip pockets in front and two side pockets. The cuffs and waistband are leather. They will customize their jackets. Also, Gibson&Barnes makes a Raider jacket but it has knit cuffs and waistband. They no longer do custom work. Check these companies out and you may find what you are looking for at a much more reasonable price than buying overseas.

Ray

 

[Fatdutchman]

I have looked at the Flightsuits.com (the former G&B) "Raider" jacket. It has gussets and a biswing back, which I don't care for. I want the vintage look and fit (considering my thick chest...). A well fitted jacket doesn't need gussets or anything to allow the wearer to move. The "raider" would probably suit me as well as anything, IF it was well fitted, without gussets or a biswing back....and if it were actually brown rather than the typical superdark brown....Flightsuits has a pretty poor website with VERY inadequate illustrations of their products, by the way.

I quickly looked at San Diego leather ( www.leather.com ). Anyone have experience with them? I wonder about the quality. It could be outstanding, and it could be crap as well! Just don't know.[huh]

 

[Baggers]

Raymundo made a couple of good suggestions. U.S. A also does a "take" on that style as well, I think. It's a start anyway. Although the U.S. Navy might might beg to differ with you about a well fitting jacket not needing a bi-swing. It's been a feature on all their issued flight jackets since the thirties, and they tend to be quite fitted.

As for the A-1, it was a common civilian style. Dig into this section and look for info on the various A-1 style "wind blouses" that were available for sale in catalogues of the period. They were usually made of light weight hides such as capeskin and suede and intended for casual wear or sporting purposes, sort of a precursor of the varsity jacket. As for horsehide, yes, it's heavier than goat, but suppleness can vary due to thickness of hide and the tanning procedure. My G&B russet horse A-2 broke in very quickly, while my Aero Barnstormer is still quite stiff. But I also have an Aero Cossack that has softened up much more. It just depends on the hide. A-2s were type classified for the Air Corps in the early thirties, but I believe they were also available for sale to civilians (at ridiculously low prices compared to today!) according to a period ad I've seen posted here or on the VLJ forum.

Speaking of prices, it's hard to equate then with now. Leather, particularly horsehide, was a much more common jacket material compared to today, so what the average Joe paid back in the thirties for a garment cannot really be compared to today, especially with horsehide which, due to current Federal law, cannot be had in the amounts necessary to get the price lower. Check with U.S. A, I think they might have a russet cape. I distinctly remember the fellow with the custom A-1 getting swatches from which to choose. They might even have russet goatskin which would have a much nicer drape, a lot closer to the original spec capeskin than horsehide would provide.

As for the lid, a Miller, huh? Not a bad rework. My compliments. I'm wearing an AB in my avatar. Steve makes a great hat, made of pure beaver at a price thats hard to beat. Failing that, I've heard great comments on the Akubra Federation.

Cheers!

 

[Fatdutchman]

I'm just sick of big, baggy clothing. Everything now is "oversize"... For me, a jacket should be cut little differently than a shirt would. The armholes should be high and tight, up in the armpit. The jacket in my avatar is an old Cooper A2 in size 44L (technically two sizes too small). The body of the garment fits great, it's just the sleeve construction. The sleeves are put on like a modern suit coat (ugh), and the armholes come down an inch or two more than they need to. The shoulders are too broad (even for me) and the sleeves are hung at about a 45 degree angle. It's almost a "drape suit"!!! Take about an inch or so away from the shoulder seam length, bring up the armhole about an inch, and put on the sleeves at a more comfortable angle of about 60 or 70 degrees (more like a shirt...), and this thing would be nice! I can put on the jacket and pull the sleeves hole area up into my armpit (and pull the sleeves up on my arms about 5"!) and I can move with ease!...well, considering that I'm standing there with my hands in my armpits!!!!lol

I seem to be pretty much stuck with a military style jacket (if I can get one cut correctly!) if I want this kind of fit, which means the A1/A2 style, and I definitely want to try one on before committing to anything.

 

[PADDY]

Chris, just a suggestion...

Contact Mark Moye (see the permanent Reference Section at top of WWII room) who represents Aero in the US. He has demo jackets that he lends out (you may need to leave a deposit as a guarantee) for folk to try on to get the right sizing beforre making a purchase.

Also RMNZ do a nice trim vintage/high armpit cut. But not sure if Miss Paddy in NZ lends any out (I have a feeling, no).

Hope that helps in some small way.

 

[feltfan]

I seem to be pretty much stuck with a military style jacket (if I can get one cut correctly!) if I want this kind of fit, which means the A1/A2 style, and I definitely want to try one on before committing to anything.

Sounds like you might not prefer a military style jacket?
I'm no expert, but I've been very pleased with the biker-style
jacket I bought many years ago from Johnson Leathers in
San Francisco. I was able to make customizations, pick my leather, etc.
They do a variety of work and a lot of jackets for police officers.
They usually have a 20% off sale in December, too. I'm thinking about
getting a second one this year.

They have a web page:

http://www.johnsonleather.com/

I've never seen them mentioned here- be curious how they compare.
I have seen some jaw-dropping horsehide military jackets here, but
for a lot less money, the Johnson jackets seem very well made.

fftopic: BTW, both the links carried in your posts, Fatdutchman,
concern me. I don't know that there's room outside of the
Observation Bar for anti-evolution links like
www.answersingenesis.org
I don't like feeling I have to respond to what I consider an
objectionable position by having to add to my every post this link:
http://www.ncseweb.org/about.asp
Shall we keep our views in the Observation Bar?

And the photos of flintlocks particularly bother me
because they are so fine I am tempted to start another collection,
which I cannot do! If others haven't looked yet- you've been warned!
http://photobucket.com/albums/v326/F...man/Flintlocks

 

[Fatdutchman]

It is merely a link to an organization that I support. Many people similarly put links into their "signature" sections on message boards. It's not uncommon to see someone's favorite organization, message board, or product linked in their signature. Is it "offensive"? I'm certain that to some it is, but there's no such thing as the right to not be offended! It is a link, nothing more. It is not pornographic, nor violent, nor hateful. I don't think it goes against any of the rules of this message board. No statements have been made on this board. No discussions started, no names called, no arguments begun. There is nothing to "keep in the Observation Bar". I don't go to bars anyway!

You may put whatever links in your signature you wish. I won't bat an eye. Hey, I'm pretty used to being offended!

And, certainly, thank you for your comments on my flintlock guns. I put a lot of work into them.

Thank you also for the direction to Johnson leather!

If I was to have my druthers (which is all too rare), I would like to have a jacket just like the one on the guy in my photo above. I have seen a few other '30's and '40's jackets similar to this one. I have come across some motorcycle jackets that were made rather like this one. Some of them would probably fill the bill, but so far, ALL of them have been only offered in black.... I gotta have brown, man.

 

[Benny Holiday]

Sam Cox posted a thread a while back in which he mentioned getting a custom 30's-style jacket made by Mars Leathers in Melbourne, Australia:

http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?t=1049

I don't know if they ship o/seas, but they'd be worth looking into seeing as the US dollar is stronger than the Aussie dollar. Their website is

www.marsleathers.com.au

Hope this is helpful.

 

[Fatdutchman]

Hah! I think MAYBE I got something....Schott makes a jacket that I really like. Their #135 "Casual Weekend". It looks essentially identical to the one in my photo. And glory, they have it in brown! I am concerned with sleeve length, but I'm thinkin' that perhaps the standard jacket will work for me. I have emailed them about sizing, giving them my measurements. The jacket I believe is $360. Made of pebble grained cowhide. I'm keepin' my fingers crossed!!!

I also found a couple of likely candidates from Vansonleathers. Their "Dakota" is the same type of jacket (black only, though), and $548. Their "Enfield" is quite similar, but with cinch straps on the back. Also black only. A bit more than I want to spend, and of course, not brown, but VERY attractive jackets.

The Schott looks VERY promising...not exactly what I started out with, but I think it's what I really want now.

Oh, and just a while ago, I ordered a jacket from Wilson! I looked in their "big and tall" category (which is quite limited!) and they had a brown "shirt collar bomber" jacket, which I find fairly attractive. The only size was XL tall. $99. I figured what the heck, I'll get the thing. It may be huge on me, I don't know. If it doesn't fit, I'll just send it back, no loss. I think this is a discontinued size, as they still carry this jacket (and at least two slightly different versions of it too) in normal sizes...for much more money. I'll get what I want if it kills me!!!lol

 

[feltfan]

I gotta have brown, man.

I can't argue with that.
My Johnson Leathers jacket is in brown.
Every time some lemming makes a remark
to the effect that I should have bought black,
I feel I made the right decision. Besides, it
goes with brown fedoras.

But with the new one I might go dark blue or grey
if they can make it look decent (a big if).

You should post the flintlocks in the Display Case
if you haven't already. You will torture a lot of people,
including myself. But I'd like to know more.

 

[Fatdutchman]

Everyone is free to browse all my photo albums. The basic catch-all album is http://photobucket.com/albums/v326/Fatdutchman You can go there and look through all the sub-albums: Flintlocks, Original Flintlocks, Jaeger, PA German, Hats, etc.

A couple of the 18th century message boards that I frequent:
www.americanlongrifles.com/forum
www.muzzleloadingforum.com
MUCH can be learned here. Any specific questions you may have, you can certainly PM me. I'll be glad to help.

I'm just not big on black leather. No matter what kind of jacket it might be, color it black, and it suddenly becomes a "motorcycle jacket"...

 

[Fatdutchman]

Well, Schott says that brown has been discontinued in this jacket (naturally), plus, the standard length won't fit me, and I would have to have a custom jacket made. Of course, she neglected to tell me how much this service would cost me....so, another email goes out to ask....I ain't holdin' out much hope...:cry: This REALLY shouldn't be so difficult....

A man's gotta learn to live with disappointment...