Curling a brim

[frussell]

I'm sure this has been covered many times here, but I need to put some curl in the brim of a few of my hats. I'm especially talking about the rear side of a fedora. I wear too large a size to find old flanges, and would rather not spend the dough necessary to get a machine of some kind. Does anybody have some DIY or cheap tricks to get that flipped up or curled brim on a hat? Something I can make from household items? I can't seem to achieve what I want without some waves or weirdness, like there's too much brim material. Does it matter if the brim is dimensional? Thanks for any suggestions, I appreciate it. Frank

 

[rmrdaddy]

I can't let you go without a reply Frank.

I guess I need some more information though. How much "curl" are we talking here? Pencil curl? Western?
Any pics as reference material?

 

[frussell]

Not a pencil curl.

No, just the usual curl on the back end of a typical fedora from the "Golden Era." I've tried the usual methods of ironing and steaming, but just can't seem to get the upturn I'm looking for. I've got several old kettle curl cowboy hats, but those are usually flanged specifically for that style. Thanks though. Frank

 

[suitedcboy]

You need: 1. steam, I prefer a boiling pot of water with an inverted funnel made of aluminum foil. Tea kettle's spout creates a pressure drop that condenses steam back into water and spits it onto hat, "free range" steam is best and is what the pro steamers make.
2. stainless steel tableware teaspoon (tablespoon for brims over 3 inches or less pronounced "curl")
3. terry cloth towel for lots of curl, folded woven cotton cloth for moderate curl.

Steam a brim area 3-4 inches wide and put the bottom of brim on towel and work side to side and radially in the area steamed. Then steam and work the next section. Adjust by hand and let it dry to see where it goes and how much "curl" is retained.
I have used this method on the edge of a counter with front of fedoras to get downward front curl or swoop.
Stainless will not gray stain the felt and I haven't had spoon working do anything that I can't undo.

Softer, deeper towels let spoon make a deeper impression which makes for more curl and firmer towel decreases the impression while "spooning" and yields a lesser curl.

I have used this method to "iron" out previous sharp creases in brims so I could change the brim shape with good success. Often I have to "uncurl" by going to the underside first to make the felt "forget" the old crease and then let it dry before proceeding to any more working of the felt.

I've done a wee bit of metalworking on car bodies and fabricated some panels and felt working is very similar to metal working I've found. The spoons are sort of a felt working version of an English Wheel.

 

[Fletch]

Steam a brim area 3-4 inches wide and put the bottom of brim on towel and work side to side and radially in the area steamed. Then steam and work the next section. Adjust by hand and let it dry to see where it goes and how much "curl" is retained.

I'm guessing you stroke the spoon bowl along the inner region of the brim, where you want the concave curl to be. ???

BTW, an English wheel is used to shape fenders and other parts with a compound curve - what a good snap brim has.

 

[suitedcboy]

Yes, push down to apply some pressure and move the spoon laterally around the brim and also radially so there isn't a "trench" around brim but just the smooth curl that a flange would impress into the felt were one to be used.

 

[Fletch]

Gotcha. Make small circles, like when brushing teeth.

I feel vaguely subversive learning this stuff. We're filling in the gap left by an intricate trade that depended on specialized machinery to keep its franchise. It's almost like taking bread from the mouths of dead men.

 

[frussell]

Thanks for the great answers.

I appreciate it. Anybody make a homemade brim flanger from household materials? I'll definitely try the spoon trick. Frank

 

[Spatterdash]

You could make a flange the same way a lot of us have made blocks, I suppose.

You'd need a few pieces of wide lumber or mdf, and it would need to be at least an inch thick.
You cut a doughnut out, with the center hole the exact oval of your hat crown, and the doughnut would be about 2 3/4 to 3 inchs out from the center hole.
Cut a couple of these flat wood doughnuts with your jigsaw, enough so that you get a stack about 2.5 to 3 inches high.
Glue these and clamp them.

Once dry, use a power sander and start smoothing the best curve into the outer corner of the doughnut you can.

You'd want a stand for the flange, but it would be easy. You'd need a sturdy flat board and a couple of pieces of wood standing up on each end, about 4 to 5 inches high.
Drill a couple of long heavy screws into the ends of the standing pieces and leave them exposed about a half inch.
Mark the screwheads postions on the underside of your homemade flange and drill sockets for them.

Then the flange has something to stand on.

 

[shortbow]

Great question, great info., had been wondering the right way to do this for quite a spell. Lurking pays.

 

[Will Morgan]

Scientific Hat Finishing and Renovating, by Henry L Ermatinger

"a complete and profusely illustrated course of instruction, enabling the novice to acquire the art of finishing and remodeling hats of all varieties according to tested and approved methods (1919)"

is a great reference for this sort of work with both fur and straw hats, it is available in PDF form here: http://www.archive.org/details/scientifichatfin00erma

-
Will
http://davidmorgan.com/

 

[Mario]

Wow! What a fantastic link! That's some great stuff - many thanks for that! :eusa_clap

 

[feltfan]

Several?

I've got several old kettle curl cowboy hats

Why haven't we seen these hats yet, in this thread?

http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?t=44749

Post some pictures, please!

 

[frussell]

Feltfan

They're old to me, not by hat standards! Nothing rare or valuable, just a Tonto Rim custom job and a hat given to me by the new chief at HatCo, sort of a one-off deal. I've had others, but when I was working with horses more often they tended to hold rain and dust more than a regular brim. After wearing more fedoras, these things feel like a charro's sombrero on me now. I don't have as many occasions to wear them as I used to. Thanks, Frank

 

[Hat and Rehat]

You need: 1. steam, I prefer a boiling pot of water with an inverted funnel made of aluminum foil. Tea kettle's spout creates a pressure drop that condenses steam back into water and spits it onto hat, "free range" steam is best and is what the pro steamers make.
2. stainless steel tableware teaspoon (tablespoon for brims over 3 inches or less pronounced "curl")
3. terry cloth towel for lots of curl, folded woven cotton cloth for moderate curl.

Steam a brim area 3-4 inches wide and put the bottom of brim on towel and work side to side and radially in the area steamed. Then steam and work the next section. Adjust by hand and let it dry to see where it goes and how much "curl" is retained.
I have used this method on the edge of a counter with front of fedoras to get downward front curl or swoop.
Stainless will not gray stain the felt and I haven't had spoon working do anything that I can't undo.

Softer, deeper towels let spoon make a deeper impression which makes for more curl and firmer towel decreases the impression while "spooning" and yields a lesser curl.

I have used this method to "iron" out previous sharp creases in brims so I could change the brim shape with good success. Often I have to "uncurl" by going to the underside first to make the felt "forget" the old crease and then let it dry before proceeding to any more working of the felt.

I've done a wee bit of metalworking on car bodies and fabricated some panels and felt working is very similar to metal working I've found. The spoons are sort of a felt working version of an English Wheel.

I'm resurecting an old thread because I found the final comment very interesting. I recently made a very similar claim regarding reworking crown creases. Last summer I spent quite a bit of time learning to repair auto body panels, with the help of my neighbor, a pro of the old school variety. I found a lot of that knowledge very useful in working felt. It looks like I'm not alone.