Chocolate Chip rag-tagged US Army...

[PADDY]

ONCE you start getting camo clothing that is called "CHOCOLATE CHIP" then you know that things are going to the dogs! What's happening to service uniforms in the forces of the USA? The uniforms are getting so sloppy that units are looking like a rag-tag army from a second-rate South American dictatorship. (BTW..this has thread has been sparked off by some proud Americans on other threads, who have mentioned this 'rot' that is setting into the armed services).
Boots are going from leather to suede that doesn't need polishing and can be thrown into the wash machine. Leather bits are being replaced by PVC and plastics, natural materials replaced by man-made (I can see some of the reasoning with that on dryability, breathability..etc). But, the galling thing is the overall look which has deteriorated. ON another site, the lads were gob-smacked by the ugly icon for the USAAF. "Why didn't they keep Hap Arnold's original designs going (the star and wings)...?" they cry.
Is spit and polish getting "too hard" for the PLAY STATION generation? Is leather too manly?
Look at pre-war and WWII pics of men in uniform, and tell me if they don't look sharp. I love sam browne officer belts, just speaks of status and pride. I love a well bulled ammunition boot with studs that send sparks flying as they march across a parade square. But those are dying days my friends.
Recently I was down at the British Guard's Depot at Pirbright in Surrey (UK). Young cadets were marching (square bashing as the Brits call it) across the parade square, that hallowed ground! Looked great until you look at their feet and see the Nike Trainers!! TRUE!!! I asked one of my NCO's why this was. He replied: "Sah, it's because the young uns coming in these days don't have hard enough feet for proper leather boots. We have to harden them!" I can still remember that part of the rigours of breaking 'us' in and the boots was to soak them while you were wearing them,and then just ride them hard, getting blisters as you go!!!
I really feel there's a rot setting into our great services on both sides of the pond. The British Army was once the benchmark by which all other armies measured up to. I feel those days are quickly dying and that the sun is setting over the British Empire and her services. The times, they are a changing!
Any comments...?

 

[BellyTank]

...and soldiers used to make and clean their own toilets- and peel their own potatoes-
now we have Haliburton...

B
T

 

[Vladimir Berkov]

I agree. Here is my list of general problems with the US uniforms:

1.) Use of camo in non-combat capacities. Sure you need camo when you are on patrol in Iraq, but do you need it when you are working on a computer in Illinois? I think not.

2.) Ugly green polyester uniforms. They are hot in summer, cold in winter and an ugly color year-round.

3.) Black berets. Enough said.

 

[Matt Deckard]

They are just following today's trends.

Troops used to travel in Full dress uniform, now I don't think they carry anything other than their camo.

 

[Mycroft]

We can blame McMamara (forgive the spelling) for the lack of dress uniforms, probelly. I think that yes, as a amiteur millitary hisotrian we need tradtion to continue, but then again were are not in a convetional war.

 

[Harp]

Recently I was down at the British Guard's Depot at Pirbright in Surrey (UK). Young cadets were marching (square bashing as the Brits call it) across the parade square, that hallowed ground! Looked great until you look at their feet and see the Nike Trainers!! TRUE!!! I asked one of my NCO's why this was. He replied: "Sah, it's because the young uns coming in these days don't have hard enough feet for proper leather boots. We have to harden them!" I can still remember that part of the rigours of breaking 'us' in and the boots was to soak them while you were wearing them,and then just ride them hard, getting blisters as you go!!!
I really feel there's a rot setting into our great services on both sides of the pond. The British Army was once the benchmark by which all other armies measured up to. I feel those days are quickly dying and that the sun is setting over the British Empire and her services. The times, they are a changing!
Any comments...?

Field service uniforms and equipment change and evolve, of course.
Personally, I favor the old nine mile run in leather jump boots; rain or shine,
with the Old Man and First Shirt out front.

 

[MrBern]

army combat uniform

I dont find anything objectionable to the digital camoflage or the suede boots. The boys in th sandbox have enuff to deal with , they dont need to spend downtime shining.

Actually the new uniform is supposed to be wrinkle free, & should not necessitate dry cleaning to preserve its colors.

 

[carebear]

Dry cleaning is now verboten for the new cammies. They are treated with an anti-IR substance that can stand a bit of wash but is eaten by dry cleaning chemicals.

It used to be that cammies weren't to be tailored either, but that was winked at, at least for garrison sets. Now they are wash and wear.

The digi patterns do work great though. When we first got ours (the MARPAT, not whatever the Army calls theirs) we did side by side spotting tests, drastically better than woodland pattern. The roughout boot is also a good piece of gear for the field, can't say I liked not being surrounded by glossy black in the barracks though.

Of the services the Marines are still at least trying to maintain the idea of appropriate uniforms. Last I heard you still couldn't wear cammies out in town (except for emergency stops, maybe to get gas). You were either to be in civvies or the service uniform. There's a point at which the "every Marine a rifleman" is taken too far. If you work in an office, you should wear a service dress uniform, in a hanger or garage, they wear coveralls. Save the cammies for the field. It hardly takes any time at all to keep shoes polished and uniforms pressed, especially when you can cheat and wear Chlorophrams.

Living in an Army/Air Force town it drove me nuts seeing those cheeseballs not only out in cammies but also in poorly pressed ones at that and with boots that a bum wouldn't wear. When they got the "every man a Ranger" beret order it just put the cap (so to speak) on it.

 

[Vladimir Berkov]

I don't see anything wrong with the new boots either, the old combat boots were not incredibly comfortable or good looking for that matter.

The one thing that bugs me about the new army camo uniforms is the use of velcro. I just don't get it. I know it is so insignia and patches and be easily put on and taken off, but is this really necessary? Velco is just so cheezy, it just strikes me as something that shouldn't be on a military uniform.

Of course there are always reactionary types like me around, I am sure there were loads of people bemoaning the loss of the original army blue field uniforms around the time of the Spanish American War. Or the loss of the standing collar uniforms in the 1920s.

I just don't see why, with the amount of money and resources we put into our miltiary we couldn't come up with something better.

 

[carebear]

If the Army didn't feel the need to clutter their camoflage uniforms, heck all their uniforms, with all that non-camoflage impedimentia, they wouldn't have the problem. They wear as many badges and devices as a tinpot dictator and then make such sterling fashion choices as combat boots with a dress uniform.

Shoes with dress uniforms, pin-on rank and badges for the cammies, take em off in the field, no velcro in sight.

I just realized I may appear a bit biased...

 

[Vladimir Berkov]

I guess the other question I have is "why the nametags?"

Modern Americans in general seem to have an obsession with the things for reasons I can't quite figure out. Maybe they think it makes people more friendly? Or that they think people no longer know how to introduce themselves to others?

The nametags on the uniform are useless for body identification purposes, and are unnecessary for identifying your clothing. (ie as a "monogram") Personally I think the nametags are rather demeaning for the military.

 

[carebear]

Nametapes were coming in the summer of '91 right after I had gotten out of Boot. I think the idea was simply for ID, with the side benefit of balancing the US MARINES on the other pocket.

Since, "hello Marine", "come here Marine" and "what's your name Marine?" were all perfectly acceptable forms of address, I am willing to blame some REMF officer who got a false name from a junior Marine after calling him on some minor violation and came up with an excuse to mandate nametpes so "they won't get away with THAT again".

As a practical matter, the junior Marines who checked into my unit with nametapes quickly became the guys called for all the nasty details simply because everyone knew their names. Those of us without tapes had a month or so to get them on.

 

[Hondo]

Camos

I got to agree with most of you. This is why I am so interested in, admire the “Greatest Generation” WWII, just born in the wrong era I guess.
Velcro??? :eusa_doh:
A lot of this as to do with the economy, military down size (make it cheaper think Wal-Mart) the physical present force, the need for an all volunteer force has brought up the National Guard as a fighting unit which in my opinion is not a ready steady go Army but compiled with weekend warriors until recent series of world events. I don’t mean to imply any disrespects to the Guard, (God Bless these men and women for their service) you should be an active, full time fighting force, around the clock duty, this is difficult outfit, dress and maintain, unless you’re under a dictatorship or in a communist country. In this era it’s just tough to keep an active group of soldiers around well equipped, dressed uniforms and in combat. The Army tends to concentrate on camos, easier to outfit any unit with out going into details, for dress uniforms sizes, shoes, and the whole chore kind of like “one size fits all” doesn’t made them weak, its just looks, a sign of the times.
I’m glad the Marines retain everything; these guys are the first to go so they should be given priority to dress accordingly. But now The U.S. Navy has started to do away with “Cracker Jack” uniforms and go gray or is it gray/blue camo which resembles the Russian navy. Spare me for going into details, whom ever thought this up deserves a crack on the skull.
We can go on and on regarding the economy but if we keep taking so many new citizens surely we can maintain a large active, full time fighting force, given dressed uniforms and dressed properly for combat. Then again maybe they will just invent Outer Space Death Rays so we won’t need a large fighting force to be well dressed

 

[deanglen]

Of course there are always reactionary types like me around, I am sure there were loads of people bemoaning the loss of the original army blue field uniforms around the time of the Spanish American War.

I'm with you, Vlad! Remember the Maine..and the uniforms!

dean

 

[Scary Mc]

I dont find anything objectionable to the digital camoflage or the suede boots. The boys in th sandbox have enuff to deal with , they dont need to spend downtime shining.

.

I agree comepletely. My closest friend is heading back to The Sandox for his second tour. He spends his days and nights above the city in his recon heli praying to god that he doesn't get hit by a well aimed AK bullet or a Stinger.
The last thing Evan wants to do when he gets back to his cot is polish boots.

It's the Army, not the Fasion Police.

 

[Baggers]

Beyond dittoing what most everyone has said with regards to this subject, My major gripe is why each branch of the American military seems to think it needs its own distinct camouflage pattern and uniform design. The Marines have MARPAT, the Army has recently fielded its ACU, the Navy is developing its own camo pattern, and recently I read that the Air Force was field testing a blue version of the old tiger stripe pattern for its personnel. And naturally, all the uniforms have their own distinct design regarding pocket layout and other features. I shudder when I imagine the money and time spent to design, test, procure, and issue one new uniform and then multiply that number by four! As a taxpayer I have to believe that there are more efficient ways to provide what our troops need to do their jobs effectively.

I think the British and Canadians did it right when then they developed one pattern of camouflage for temperate and desert conditions, applied it to one uniform design, and then issued it to everybody.

Cheers!

 

[carebear]

I agree comepletely. My closest friend is heading back to The Sandox for his second tour. He spends his days and nights above the city in his recon heli praying to god that he doesn't get hit by a well aimed AK bullet or a Stinger.
The last thing Evan wants to do when he gets back to his cot is polish boots.

It's the Army, not the Fasion Police.

I don't think anyone is suggesting that deployed soldiers in the field (especially at war) should be worried about spit and polish, but there's no excuse when the troops are in garrison, back in the States or at permanent duty stations, while not actively field training or working in messy jobs, to be walking around in wrinkles and scuffs, especially out in town.

 

[Thunderbolt]

ABU

We'll be getting our new stuff here pretty soon. For us Air Force guys, it's called the "Airman Battle Uniform" and will feature the new suade boots. I don't mind the new uniform too much. The new production tiger stripe camo will be more functional than the prototype was as it will cut down on the amount of blue in the camo significantly. I dont like the idea of suade boots though. If something happened to the black leather, you scuffed it or scratched or even put gashes in it, you could just fill it in with polish. The new suades will show stains and will soak up water like a sponge. The black ones you could polish and provide some means of waterproofing but not with suades. I'm just happy that they kept our strips on our sleeves an not did like the Army and put one small insignia on the chest. I'm glad we didn't go with an eight point hat because I'm not a Marine!

 

[Harp]

We'll be getting our new stuff here pretty soon. For us Air Force guys, it's called the "Airman Battle Uniform" and will feature the new suade boots. I don't mind the new uniform too much. The new production tiger stripe camo will be more functional....

...Tiger Stripes? Air Force wears TSs?

 

[carebear]

Look for yourself. It's world's better than the first idea, the first one was bright blue. It was "We're going to wear cammies, because we're military, but we're going to choose a color that actually stands out, because we're dumb."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airman_Battle_Uniform

Then they got a little smarter. Still, no matter how much "Expeditionary Air Force" claptrap the brass throws around to ensure relevency in 4th Gen warfare, the AF as a Service still has not really accepted the idea that their airbases are not sacrosanct.

I doubt the only AF guys who actually really need cammies (PJ's, Combat Controllers, maybe the skycops when they go outside the wire) will be willingly wearing an ineffective pattern style (horizontal tiger stripe) when their lives are on the line.

Still, at least it's a nod toward an effective warfighting uniform.