Buco J-82 repro

[TheBigEraser]

Dear TFL members,

I recently started to get interested in Buco J-82 and have the following questions. Would appreciated any answers/insights. Thanks!

1) Historically, are Buco J-82 only offered in steerhide, or they are offered both in steerhide and horsehide?

2) I see currently that RM is offering the padded version of J-82 and BK has J-82 in their archive line. And I see RM has reproduced some non-padded J-82 back in 90s. Who else manufacturer is now reproducing J-82?

3) Does anybody have any experience with BK archive line?

Thanks in advance!

 

[Blackadder]

Dear TFL members,

I recently started to get interested in Buco J-82 and have the following questions. Would appreciated any answers/insights. Thanks!

1) Historically, are Buco J-82 only offered in steerhide, or they are offered both in steerhide and horsehide?

2) I see currently that RM is offering the padded version of J-82 and BK has J-82 in their archive line. And I see RM has reproduced some non-padded J-82 back in 90s. Who else manufacturer is now reproducing J-82?

3) Does anybody have any experience with BK archive line?

Thanks in advance!

1) According to a fellow member here, yes. The ad he found says the "new" J-82 is made of steerhide which could mean the J-82 as it was first produced came in steerhide. Seeing how the industry including Buco as a prominent manufacturer back then has changed from hh to steerhide altogether, I think it is a pretty safe to say that J-82 has only ever been offered in steerhide.
https://vintagehaberdashers.com/2014/05/23/vintage-1950s-buco-j-82-d-pocket-leather-jacket/

2) RM did offer the normal version but I don't remember how many times or when they did so. There is another very rare repro by Toyo Enterprise.
https://fashion.aucfan.com/yahoo/h182676432/
Yes some of the Sears AllState were made by Buco.
https://www.thefedoralounge.com/thr...-buco-horsehide-vintage-leather-jacket.93979/

3) BK's archive line is a custom order line. Basically, they are saying they can make you about anything from the Lightning Leather jacket archives. It does not mean they have made all of them or are making any of them. I have yet to see a BK J-82. My fd and I were tempted to order jackets from their archive line but as said I have not seen any actual product from that line.

 

[handymike]

So, BK doesn’t have the jackets on-hand? I thought they owned originals of all these.

 

[Blackadder]

So, BK doesn’t have the jackets on-hand? I thought they owned originals of all these.

I have no idea whether they do own any originals or not but the photos they use are not from their own collection but copied from Lightning or Rin Tanaka's book. Besides owning them does not mean they actually remake any one of those. I don't see them posting any of their remake on their facebook.

 

[handymike]

@regius is the only member I know who has an “Archive” experience.

 

[Blackadder]

@regius is the only member I know who has an “Archive” experience.

My bad. I see on their facebook that they did post pic of a remake of the Leathertogs.

 

[TheBigEraser]

1) According to a fellow member here, yes. The ad he found says the "new" J-82 is made of steerhide which could mean the J-82 as it was first produced came in steerhide. Seeing how the industry including Buco as a prominent manufacturer back then has changed from hh to steerhide altogether, I think it is a pretty safe to say that J-82 has only ever been offered in steerhide.
https://vintagehaberdashers.com/2014/05/23/vintage-1950s-buco-j-82-d-pocket-leather-jacket/

2) RM did offer the normal version but I don't remember how many times or when they did so. There is another very rare repro by Toyo Enterprise.
https://fashion.aucfan.com/yahoo/h182676432/
Yes some of the Sears AllState were made by Buco.
https://www.thefedoralounge.com/thr...-buco-horsehide-vintage-leather-jacket.93979/

3) BK's archive line is a custom order line. Basically, they are saying they can make you about anything from the Lightning Leather jacket archives. It does not mean they have made all of them or are making any of them. I have yet to see a BK J-82. My fd and I were tempted to order jackets from their archive line but as said I have not seen any actual product from that line.

Many thanks for the information Blackadder! I had this question because I only see steerhide version original pieces, but in this link, https://page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/c849502798, (although the item is capped as J-27 but it does look like a J-82 to me) RM used horsehide for this piece.
On another jacket, RM used steerhide and a mouton collar: https://www.ebay.com/itm/BUCO-J-82-Jacket-Black-Leather-Size-38-Used-From-Japan/303788074210?
Very complex, haha.

 

[Blackadder]

Many thanks for the information Blackadder! I had this question because I only see steerhide version original pieces, but in this link, https://page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/c849502798, (although the item is capped as J-27 but it does look like a J-82 to me) RM used horsehide for this piece.
On another jacket, RM used steerhide and a mouton collar: https://www.ebay.com/itm/BUCO-J-82-Jacket-Black-Leather-Size-38-Used-From-Japan/303788074210?
Very complex, haha.

I don't think you can rely on RM. They used to place the J-24 under their Harley repro line and yes that is a RM J-27. I have no idea why RM made that mistake back then but that is what they were called and we know it is wrong because J-27 is the Style King.
The description of the Yahoo auction jp listing.
マッコイのライダースです。
発売当時のカタログには、J-27と記されてましたが……現状、この形のジャケットはJ-82と表記されているようい思います。（なんらかの差はあるのかもしれませんが、最近のモデルは未見のためわかりません）
さすがにマッコイ製だけあり、革質は高級感がありすばらしいです。

 

[TheBigEraser]

I don't think you can rely on RM. They used to place the J-24 under their Harley repro line and yes that is a RM J-27. I have no idea why RM made that mistake back then but that is what they were called and we know it is wrong because J-27 is the Style King.
The description of the Yahoo auction jp listing.
マッコイのライダースです。
発売当時のカタログには、J-27と記されてましたが……現状、この形のジャケットはJ-82と表記されているようい思います。（なんらかの差はあるのかもしれませんが、最近のモデルは未見のためわかりません）
さすがにマッコイ製だけあり、革質は高級感がありすばらしいです。

I see. Speaking of Harley repro line of RM, have you handled any piece before and if yes, what is your experience? I see there are quite some jackets with good condition and price in those Japanese shopping site.

 

[Blackadder]

I see. Speaking of Harley repro line of RM, have you handled any piece before and if yes, what is your experience? I see there are quite some jackets with good condition and price in those Japanese shopping site.

Depends on what you are looking for. First off, I think none of the Harley repro is made of shiniki HH. Secondly, they were likely made in New Zealand and not in Japan. I don't own any of the Harley repro, I have handled a few and I do have an old Joe McCoy Mobster that is made in NZ using non-Japanese HH. The weight and suppleness of the leather in turn how it drapes or hangs all quite different from the current RM shiniki mobster and the Toys McCoy shiniki mobster. Quality wise, the Few is top tier too. It is just different.

 

[TheBigEraser]

Depends on what you are looking for. First off, I think none of the Harley repro is made of shiniki HH. Secondly, they were likely made in New Zealand and not in Japan. I don't own any of the Harley repro, I have handled a few and I do have an old Joe McCoy Mobster that is made in NZ using non-Japanese HH. The weight and suppleness of the leather in turn how it drapes or hangs all quite different from the current RM shiniki mobster and the Toys McCoy shiniki mobster. Quality wise, the Few is top tier too. It is just different.

Thanks. Could you further elaborate the difference you observed? For example, are they more pliable? And about the shine?
Speaking of Mobster, I happen to have a current version (2018) Joe Mccoy's Mobster. I like the hide and the boxy cut compared to other Japanese jacket makers. See photo attached. Is the cut/silhoutte similar to your old version?

 

[Blackadder]

Mine here. Yes the old version is more pliable and the grain is different. It is heavier but softer than shiniki.
https://www.thefedoralounge.com/thr...ng-and-how-many-potential-ones.89562/page-317

 

[Blackadder]

The Toyo Allstate x Indian Motorcycle from a couple of years ago
https://ameblo.jp/junkyspecial/entry-12432974504.html

 

[TheBigEraser]

Mine here. Yes the old version is more pliable and the grain is different. It is heavier but softer than shiniki.
https://www.thefedoralounge.com/thr...ng-and-how-many-potential-ones.89562/page-317

Nice to see the photos and the precedent of my jacket!

 

[TheBigEraser]

The Toyo Allstate x Indian Motorcycle from a couple of years ago
https://ameblo.jp/junkyspecial/entry-12432974504.html

Wow! So I am a bit confused about the story behind. So my understanding is: Sears, the clothing retailer who is now a big franchise, used to also deal motorcycle clothes. Beside dealing, they have their own brand called All state. Back in 1950s, Buco, as an outsourced manufacturer, made "All state" jackets for Sears and these jackets were sold under All State brand. And back in that time, Buco had started to use steerhide to make jackets such as J-82.

What is the role of Indian Motorcycle here? Has the current Indian Motorcycle asked Toyo Enterprise to make an All-state repro and sold under the brand Indian Motorcycle? Or Toyo simply imagines, if Indian Motorclye and All State did a featuring, the jacket will look like this product?

 

[Blackadder]

Wow! So I am a bit confused about the story behind. So my understanding is: Sears, the clothing retailer who is now a big franchise, used to also deal motorcycle clothes. Beside dealing, they have their own brand called All state. Back in 1950s, Buco, as an outsourced manufacturer, made "All state" jackets for Sears and these jackets were sold under All State brand. And back in that time, Buco had started to use steerhide to make jackets such as J-82.

What is the role of Indian Motorcycle here? Has the current Indian Motorcycle asked Toyo Enterprise to make an All-state repro and sold under the brand Indian Motorcycle? Or Toyo simply imagines, if Indian Motorclye and All State did a featuring, the jacket will look like this product?

Buco started off making motorcycle parts and accessories. Beck too sell lots of parts. I think Sears used to source those parts and accessories plus the clothing from a few manufacturers including but not limited to Buco and sell them under its own Allstate label. You can find the Allstate catalogue here. A very noteworthy thread by a very knowledgeable member. Terry also stated that the clothing is listed in the "motorcycle parts and accessories" section of the catalogue.
https://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/sears-motorcylce-jacket-history-1949-1963.101311/
Post #5, 1955 catalogue you can clearly see the Buco J-71, PJ-27 and Cycle pants in the catalogue and description says they are all HH.
Post#12, 1957 catalogue, you can see the same J-71, PJ-27 and Cycle pants but by this time the J-71 and the pants are steerhide though the PJ-27 is still HH.
Post #55 The Allstate steerhide cycle pants I bought along with the jacket.
https://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/sears-motorcylce-jacket-history-1949-1963.101311/page-3


Japanese companies love to take over US labels especially those that are no longer in use. It is like RM putting the J-24 under the Harley Davidson label when they were collaborating with HD. One of the labels Toyo frequently uses is Indian Motorcycle. In fact, Toyo has a whole Indian Motorcycle clothing line. There is one Toyo Indian Motorcycle HH jackets here.
https://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/sugar-cane-indian-motorcycle-jacket.99895/
The current Indian Motorcycle and All State you find in the USA are also just a revival. Neither has any real connection to the old company.
https://www.indianmotorcycle.com/en-us/history/tumultous-times/

 

[TheBigEraser]

Buco started off making motorcycle parts and accessories. Beck too sell lots of parts. I think Sears used to source those parts and accessories plus the clothing from a few manufacturers including but not limited to Buco and sell them under its own Allstate label. You can find the Allstate catalogue here. A very noteworthy thread by a very knowledgeable member. Terry also stated that the clothing is listed in the "motorcycle parts and accessories" section of the catalogue.
https://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/sears-motorcylce-jacket-history-1949-1963.101311/
Post #5, 1955 catalogue you can clearly see the Buco J-71, PJ-27 and Cycle pants in the catalogue and description says they are all HH.
Post#12, 1957 catalogue, you can see the same J-71, PJ-27 and Cycle pants but by this time the J-71 and the pants are steerhide though the PJ-27 is still HH.
Post #55 The Allstate steerhide cycle pants I bought along with the jacket.
https://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/sears-motorcylce-jacket-history-1949-1963.101311/page-3


Japanese companies love to take over US labels especially those that are no longer in use. It is like RM putting the J-24 under the Harley Davidson label when they were collaborating with HD. One of the labels Toyo frequently used is Indian Motorcycle. In fact, Toyo has a whole Indian Motorcycle clothing line. There is one Toyo Indian Motorcycle HH jackets here.
https://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/sugar-cane-indian-motorcycle-jacket.99895/
The current Indian Motorcycle and All State you find in the USA are also just a revival. Neither has any real connection to the old company.
https://www.indianmotorcycle.com/en-us/history/tumultous-times/

Wow sir! Such a good summary and thank you so much for the write-up.

So back to the topic of this thread - J-82. I flipped through the Sears history thread and I didn't find any jacket related to J-82 (maybe I overlooked it?) Is that because J-82 was only designed after 1963?

 

[Blackadder]

Wow sir! Such a good summary and thank you so much for the write-up.

So back to the topic of this thread - J-82. I flipped through the Sears history thread and I didn't find any jacket related to J-82 (maybe I overlooked it?) Is that because J-82 was only designed after 1963?

According to Vintage Haberdashers, another prominent member here the J-82 was introduced in 1955. I attached his link above. I can only venture a guess as to why there is no J-82 in Sears catalogue. 1) we are only looking at excerpts of many years' of catalogues; 2) Sears may decide not to source all the models from Buco or Buco may want to keep some models for themselves.

 

[Canuck Panda]

Highlights of this jacket:
1) There is actually no V taper from chest to hem. Only 2" circumference in difference, 1" in half, tapers like boxy A2 jackets. But it is cut so it looks very V tapered. Very impressive pattern. Forget the measurements. Go with expanded chest size.
2) 1/8" topstitch allowance. Gotta love them. Makes the whole jacket looks a lot fancier.

The Mccoy model number is BJ7102-030. I think you can still special order this non padded one. This one is from at least 10 years ago.

Buco is cool because the patterns are very cool. Pattern sorcery...

 

[Marc mndt]

View attachment 538178
View attachment 538179 View attachment 538180 View attachment 538181 View attachment 538182 View attachment 538183 View attachment 538184 View attachment 538185

Highlights of this jacket:
1) There is actually no V taper from chest to hem. Only 2" circumference in difference, 1" in half, tapers like boxy A2 jackets. But it is cut so it looks very V tapered. Very impressive pattern. Forget the measurements. Go with expanded chest size.
2) 1/8" topstitch allowance. Gotta love them. Makes the whole jacket looks a lot fancier.

The Mccoy model number is BJ7102-030. I think you can still special order this non padded one. This one is from at least 10 years ago.

Buco is cool because the patterns are very cool. Pattern sorcery...
View attachment 538187

The pattern looks a lot like the original, except for the sleeves which look slightly narrower on the RMC.

What's totally different is the construction quality and the leather. The originals weren't as nice as the RMC.