Bronson N-1 Deck Jacket sheds tons of fibres from pile liner!

[CatsCan]

OK, said I. Dry Clean Only. But if THIS is the reason for them to state Dry Clean Only, then they must have done something very wrong.
This is the Bronson N-1 Deck Jacket in their blue version with 80% wool 20% Acryl liner.
I washed it for the first time after three years. Note, that I wash ALL my clothes sooner or later. Note also, that I am NO NOVICE when it comes to fabrics, care, laundry.... I would claim that I am experienced.

Setting: hand wash, cold, low speed spin. Liquid wool soap.

Outcome: Jacket did not shrink much, I could pull it to old form and size without effort.
BUT: All was full of fibres shed from the pile liner.
How much the pile liner is shedding? ALOT! First I tried my vacuum cleaner. Then I turned to combing. Did it stop at one point? No. As long as you comb, there are fibres coming off. Until all liner is gone. I already have enough material combed off that I could knit socks from.

The following fotos hopefully show what I am talkting about.

I mean.... this is NOT normal! Not only will I ruin everything I would wear underneath, I spoil my car's seats, my furnitures, worst of all: my lungs! I really don't want the smaller of the fibres entering my lungs.

Can this be the reason for Bronson to say: Dry Clean Only? If so, then they must have done something deliberately wrong, knowing about the issue. But I doubt that. Even the cheap Jacket of my daughter with a real thick teddy pile liner of a wool/acryl mix is getting washed regularely and has no problems after years of usage. And when I think how often I washed my good old German Bundeswehr Parka with it's acrylic pile liner, even at 60°C sometimes... no issues.

So my conclusion is not "don't ever wash a Bronson Deck Jacket". I'd rather say: Don't buy it in the first place. Of course I can have received a dud. Will ask the seller, what he says. I will give them a chance. But for 180,- Euro (most recent price) paid directly to China I can expect a better quality. I should add, that I have washed my Pike Brothers Deck Jacket several times. No issue.

Angry.

Cats

Update: Asked the seller, currently waiting for his answer.

 

[ton312]

I have never seen shedding like that in my life! Will the liner just peel out of the jacket?

 

[CatsCan]

the liner is sewn in at the cuffs, the hem, the collar. I could ask the seemstress to remove the liner and use it for a template to make a new and better one and put it into the jacket. Not sure if it's worth the hassle... Maybe I remove the liner myself except from the collar and wear the shell over a fleece jacket Honestly, this was quite a surprise. It must be a very low quality plush liner... it seems that the threads are not locked to the matrix as you would normally do when producing a liner like this... Every low end company selling their cheap jackets on high street or even walmart is doing better. Especially when I think at what money Bronson MFG does take for this jacket, 180 Dollar/Euro...
I wonder what Buzz Ricksons' or McCoy's liner would behave like. For Pike Brothers' N-1 I can tell for sure, it can stand washing with no issues, it's liner is tough like bones. Bronson - that I really liked fitwise, lookwise, seems to be crap.

 

[ton312]

the liner is sewn in at the cuffs, the hem, the collar. I could ask the seemstress to remove the liner and use it for a template to make a new and better one and put it into the jacket. Not sure if it's worth the hassle... Maybe I remove the liner myself except from the collar and wear the shell over a fleece jacket Honestly, this was quite a surprise. It must be a very low quality plush liner... it seems that the threads are not locked to the matrix as you would normally do when producing a liner like this... Every low end company selling their cheap jackets on high street or even walmart is doing better. Especially when I think at what money Bronson MFG does take for this jacket, 180 Dollar/Euro...
I wonder what Buzz Ricksons' or McCoy's liner would behave like. For Pike Brothers' N-1 I can tell for sure, it can stand washing with no issues, it's liner is tough like bones. Bronson - that I really liked fitwise, lookwise, seems to be crap.

Good to know, sorry it had to come at your misfortune.

 

[TooManyHatsOnlyOneHead]

Damn, bro. I had a husky once that I could pull out clumps of fur like that when he would shed at start of summer. Never seen anything like that since.

I have a Bronson N1, I think it's Khaki. If I recall there's 3 grades to them. There's a cheaper one like $120ish, then there's a mid grade like $180ish, and then there's a top grade (I think the submarine one), that's like $250ish.

I have the middle grade. When I bought it, it was a little too big, so I washed it and put in the dryer. I did that twice. Extended time, really beat it to death. I have not experienced anything like yours yet. In fact, I keep telling myself, wow, what an amazing jacket for like $180. I'm wondering if you got a lemon?

Since getting that one, I was fortunate to buy an Iron Heart one on deep discount, like $460, practically new. While the IH one has amazing details and craftsmanship, I still think the Bronson for the price has tremendous value.

Unless there's something different about the blue one, I don't get it. Try to contact them and see what they say. Although I will say, I do like Bronson a lot and have bought several things from them. But nothing yet has really been through a lot. So we'll see. The price points as we know are really good so I chalked that up to being made in China allows for some value. But I hope it's not because of the quality of the materials. Although, I don't think it's fair to compare it to Buzz Rickson or RMC or even Pike Bros. But I agree, it should not disintegrate like that after a wash.

 

[CatsCan]

Thanks mate, this helps alot! So I really start thinking that I have a bad one. I emailed the seller (vtgdr_store, Lee..) to see what he says. I am afraid, he will want to offer me that I send it back for inspection, but sending it to China is costing a fortune.) The other thing is, that I have removed the US NAVY from across the back (my wife found it too stark), there are slight brighter spots left from the removal of the print. AND I have removed the annoying knit cuffs, so the jacket is in everything else than original condition. But this has nothing to do with the desintegration of the liner. I now have a 10 liter bucket full of lint!

So, practically this jacket is unwearable.

If you comb through the liner of your N-1, are you seeing fibres coming off?

 

[Aloysius]

Given the low yen has dramatically brought down the price of the Buzz Rickson jackets that Bronson copies, I think the value proposition of the Bronson copies has disappeared.

 

[Guppy]

Yikes. I have had good experiences with the stuff I've bought from Bronson, but I don't have any N-1 jacket from them or anyone.

I have to think if this started immediately after you washed it that that must have something to do with it, but it shouldn't. I can't imagine what it would be caused by. Perhaps the fibers were glued to the base of the fabric with a water soluble glue?

It's too bad, but if it says dry clean only, and you took a chance on that and ruined it, it's not their fault. But certainly you can conclude that it was not a quality purchase.

I once bought a cheap fleece lined sweatshirt hoodie from a store on Ali Express, because it was supposedly real wool. But it was synthetic, probably polyester, and the piles were very loose, falling out constantly from new, even without washing it. So I returned it. Luckily it was a free return item.

I doubt you will have much luck with the seller, but you might find out something. I don't think the Chinese have the same concepts about after sales service as we have in the west. But my experience is pretty limited there. But usually unless there's an expressly stated warranty, and you haven't done anything to void it, they've done their part as far as they're concerned, and you're on your own.

 

[CatsCan]

Given the low yen has dramatically brought down the price of the Buzz Rickson jackets that Bronson copies, I think the value proposition of the Bronson copies has disappeared.

and if we take into account the value in the long run, after years of wear, re-sale value et cetera... then higher prices of better quality of brands who earned their reputation pays off. My spezimen of Bronsons N-1 is not sustainable if seen this way. I am curious how the seller or the brand willl handle my issue. Will report here so those who contemplate about which N-1 they should buy could have a benefit out of my experience...

 

[TooManyHatsOnlyOneHead]

If I pinch very strongly and pull away, I can grab a few fibers. Nothing like what's happening to you. I would expect that from the amount of force I'm putting.

I hate to be that guy, but what I would do if I were you is contact Bronson directly. It sounds like maybe you bought through a reseller. See if they respond. If they don't, leave a bad review. I know there's some technicality here because of the dry clean only tag, but it's worth a shot.

 

[CatsCan]

Perhaps the fibers were glued to the base of the fabric with a water soluble glue?

that was my gues as well, something like a starch based glue in the matrix...

It's too bad, but if it says dry clean only, and you took a chance on that and ruined it, it's not their fault. But certainly you can conclude that it was not a quality purchase.

true. I washed it when it says Dry Clean Only. But this is not the expected kind of damage a wash should cause. Rather shrinkage, color bleeding and such. And this would not be covered by any kind of warranty. But total desintegration of the liner just by contact with water would still be a clear sign of a faulty material or faulty production.

Still, Bronson competes with other brands on this rather special field. So they should be interested in solving problems after sale.

 

[CatsCan]

If I pinch very strongly and pull away, I can grab a few fibers. Nothing like what's happening to you. I would expect that from the amount of force I'm putting.

I hate to be that guy, but what I would do if I were you is contact Bronson directly. It sounds like maybe you bought through a reseller. See if they respond. If they don't, leave a bad review. I know there's some technicality here because of the dry clean only tag, but it's worth a shot.

The seller is one of their trusted sellers (amazon, ebay...) and I suppose he has direct connection to Bronson if he is not part of their sale concept. I contacted him first because he was very responsive when I bought it and I heard good things about him from others who bought through him. I still believe that I had a piece from a bad batch. If so, there must have been others in the past with the same issue and he probably knows about the problem.

 

[CatsCan]

If I pinch very strongly and pull away, I can grab a few fibers. Nothing like what's happening to you. I would expect that from the amount of force I'm putting.

Would you try and comb through the liner as you would with a cat ()just so our methods are at least comparable, using the same technique? Just curious!

 

[TooManyHatsOnlyOneHead]

Would you try and comb through the liner as you would with a cat ()just so our methods are at least comparable, using the same technique? Just curious!

I am part of the follicle challenged, so no hair, therefore no combs lol. I can tell you for sure if I passed a comb like that through the coat it would not shed like yours. I get no residue when wearing, etc. It is very very secure.

It's either a bad batch or the particular soap you used interacted negatively with the construction. Not your fault of course, no way of knowing. The one I used was fine... generic, no dye, no perfume, gentle kind of detergent. But seeing your story, I for sure will not wash again. I only washed the first time because I needed to shrink it about a half size. Maybe I got lucky or maybe you got unlucky.

 

[CatsCan]

..no hair....no cat... no comb. Nail brush?

 

[Guppy]

that was my gues as well, something like a starch based glue in the matrix...


true. I washed it when it says Dry Clean Only. But this is not the expected kind of damage a wash should cause. Rather shrinkage, color bleeding and such. And this would not be covered by any kind of warranty. But total desintegration of the liner just by contact with water would still be a clear sign of a faulty material or faulty production.

Still, Bronson competes with other brands on this rather special field. So they should be interested in solving problems after sale.

Indeed, they should be. If they did use a water soluble glue, it would be a poor choice, particularly for something intended to be worn on the deck of a Navy vessel! What did they glue it with, cotton candy? Lol.

If the feedback does make it back to the maker, they might fix the issue for the future, but I would expect that the retailer would only be able to tell you that they can pass the word along, while not accepting responsibility for the defect. But then again, who knows - - they might do more than that, especially if they are selling on Amazon. It can't hurt to ask.

 

[Blackadder]

Indeed, they should be. If they did use a water soluble glue, it would be a poor choice, particularly for something intended to be worn on the deck of a Navy vessel! What did they glue it with, cotton candy? Lol.

If the feedback does make it back to the maker, they might fix the issue for the future, but I would expect that the retailer would only be able to tell you that they can pass the word along, while not accepting responsibility for the defect. But then again, who knows - - they might do more than that, especially if they are selling on Amazon. It can't hurt to ask.

I do not own a Bronson N-1 but it may not be the water. Dry cleaning usually do not involve spinning. Even at low spin cycle, we are talking about 400 rpm. Designed to shake water and other residue away, you would risk not just shrinkage and discoloration but destruction of fine fabric like silk or cashmere. The force will break fine threads. The friction caused by the spin is not without harm to coarse material like wool too. It certainly makes matter worse if it is not the main cause.

I am part of the follicle challenged, so no hair, therefore no combs lol. I can tell you for sure if I passed a comb like that through the coat it would not shed like yours. I get no residue when wearing, etc. It is very very secure.

It's either a bad batch or the particular soap you used interacted negatively with the construction. Not your fault of course, no way of knowing. The one I used was fine... generic, no dye, no perfume, gentle kind of detergent. But seeing your story, I for sure will not wash again. I only washed the first time because I needed to shrink it about a half size. Maybe I got lucky or maybe you got unlucky.

If I was to do a control test, I'd add washing and drying without spinning.

I usually don't recommend buying Bronson unless you can somehow sneak it in without paying taxes. The N-1 SRP is USD 100 on Taobao and that is retail price from Bronson direct i.e. with standard profit for Bronson already. For 180 euros it is double the SRP which include around 40-50% import duties and sales tax to your Gov't, a $20 courier by air which equates 20% mark up, the residual goes to the reseller etc. I'd as soon buy a Carhartt WIP Sheffield which cost 165GBP. It is not worth the shipping to buy cheap items from overseas. The major Western brands ship by containers which is a lot cheaper than courier rate by air even with bulk discount.

 

[Harris HTM]

I think you probably received a faulty item. I own a Bronson B-10, the lining and collar is a similar 80% wool fabric. Last week I washed the jacket, turned inside out (thus the wool lining was actually rubbing against the washing machine tub), normal ariel detergent, 30 degrees celsius, program wool, 600 rpm. No fiber loss at all. Some shrinkage in back and sleeve length (and that's the reason I washed it at 30 degrees).
I've read in the VLJ forum that some members had some quality problems with some nylon Bronson's - what you all had in common is that they bought the jackets through ebay sellers / retailers and not directly from Bronson.

 

[CatsCan]

what you all had in common is that they bought the jackets through ebay sellers / retailers and not directly from Bronson.

I don't think the seller is the problem... The seller was very responsive and said, he was shocked to see the photos but he doesn't think, I have a dud, otherwise the whole batch he sold three years ago must have had the same issue but he never heard any complaint. But he will ask Bronson but does not believe that they will do much. I start to believe that I have done something wrong. Maybe Blackadder is right and spinning speed was wrong or my detergent has a new formula or something....
I have combed out what I could of loose fibers, when i pinch and pull now, it seems the remaining is solid... It still looks okay...even when I see the amount of wool plucked from the liner it looks as if nothing is missing (mysteriously enough).

 

[CatsCan]

But still, the "fur"-liner must have had something that had worked as adhesive to fix the threads to the matrix...and this must have been solved in the washing. The threads don't hold on to this matrix anymore... if this makes any sense. This is my only explanation. Is there anyone who knows more about the production of plush liners or the like? Are adhesives used in the process?