Books about vintage hats

[Marc]

Greetings!

I know a couple of you have books about vintage hats and how they're made etc.

Would you recommend some of them, please? I'd like to learn a little more on the subject than the 'needle test'.

Also, do they still produce these books (would be easier for me to get them here in Germany if so) or are they vintage themselves, so I have to bite the e-bay bullet.

Thanks in advance,

Marc

 

[Fedora]

I bought one of the Stetson books, and while it is great reading, it comes up short in different felt, and style documentation. I am looking for a book that will date the hats, or at least a better detailed book than what I bought. It does give you a general idea of when some of the lines were made though and this has been a great help. I am with Marc. Can anyone give us an idea if other Stetson books are out there? And where to purchase. thanks Fedora

 

[BD Jones]

Fedora,
Was the book you bought Stetson Hats & The John B. Stetson Company 1865-1970? I see these on eBay a few times and was wondering if it was worth getting in terms of dating Stetsons and the seeing various styles.

 

[Fedora]

Yes, that is the book, and worth the money. Just not enough details, but it shows lots of pics of mens hats from the different periods. I was hoping that there would be a reference page on the tags that you see glued to the inside body of the hat. I would love to date my hats. Fedora

 

[Andykev]

Stetson book

I have this book, it is a great reference and history, great photos. Real "must have" for any serious hat guy.

I don't know if Amazon has it, but I found one on Ebay , FYI. Here is the link to check out.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2882801557&category=14065

 

[Fedora]

Thanks. That is the book that I bought. I was hoping there was a more in depth book, covering men's hats from Stetson. Identification pointers, etc. This one is a great book though, I couldn't put it down and read it in one sitting. Fedora

 

[Art Fawcett]

Hi Marc, et al
the book you are all talking about is a good start and extremely informative. Like Fedora said though, it's lacking in detail. Marc, if you can latch onto any old "Hat Life" books they are invaluable. I only have a couple and am searching continously for hat related materials. Believe it or not Fedora, the best source I have found in dating hats at least from the '30s on is Esquire Magazine. I have collected them for years and actually have about 400. From the first edition in the fall of '33 to 1968 complete plus a few dupes. They don't feature the inside of the hats, but they DO introduce new style hats in living color with much fanfare. From that you can study the shapes, ribbon sizes, welting details, and almost the month they hit the market. I of course also use them to date the era clothing using their marketing splash as a guide. Unfortunately, since I have been collecting the prices on these have risen dramatically. You can expect to pay from $20 to $100 for each edition with the oldest and best condition being the most expensive. I gladly gave $75 for the first edition a few years ago so use that as your guide.
Another book that is failry recent but a good guide is titled " Men's Hats" by Giuliano Folledore Over title " The twentieth Century; Histories of Fashion" copywright 1989. This won't give you the hatmakers secrets but will give you a better understanding of the evolution of hats in this century along with many pics and advertisements.
Hope this helps. I'll start looking more into my research to see if I can come up with some "findable" books for you.

 

[Art Fawcett]

Fedora, I just realized I didn't answer your question about any more Stetson books. I don't believe there were any others published. There have been small short story type books, but nothing definitive. I must tell you though, I'm not a big Stetson fan so other than the history of how they came about and what the appearance was my interest lags. I am also an automobile collector and I equate the Stetson to the Model A ford. Yes, there were some very fine hats made for a price, but generally they were SO mass produced that the quality isn't there. The mystique is, but not the hat. There were so many others whose felt quality and workmanship standards were much higher that to me Stetson doesn't rate "Top 10".

 

[fedoralover]

Does that include the Royal Deluxe and the Imperial Stetsons as well Art? I have those and they seem like pretty nice hats. The Imperial Open Road especially is nice. The ribbon has hidden stitches on the bow and the felt seems really dense, but I haven't seen the number of vintage hats to compare it too like you have. I know the vintage Borsalino's were great and Cavanagh, what are some of the other better vintage brands?

regards fedoralover

 

[Marc]

Thanks for all the input.

I'd like to learn a bit about vintage hats in general, so I guess that the Stetson book is outta game, as it only covers one brand.

But talking about brands; I'd also like to know, what brand you like the most when it comes to vintage hats Art.

Thanks again,

Marc

 

[Fedora]

Art, I am interested in finding out the real "finds"on ebay. Please share with us some inside info if possible. I figured there were hatters that made some really fine hats of the vintage type, I just don't know enough about this to make an intelligent decision if one ever pops up. I have found myself collecting the Stetson line, mainly because of the mystique involved. It is so weird to see mass produced hats like the Stetson actually sew in the liners. You don't see that anymore except on hats like the Optimo. I own only 3 old Borsalinos, and I must confess that my limited experience still picks the Stetsons over the Borsalinos. The best felted Borsalino that I have is a vintage roll up. The other two seem to have felt that is less dense, and more puffy looking than my Stetsons. So please kind sir, enlighten someone who is intensely interested in hats. Many thanks, Fedora

 

[Art Fawcett]

Boy, I KNEW that statement would elicit a response!! Fedoralover, the Imperial is top of the line and is an extremely nice hat. I would have no quarrel in rating it much higher, right up there with the best. Unfortunatley, those are pretty rare as you know. The Royal Deluxe was a good hat, but not a great hat.
Fedora, I won't give you all the secrets because then you and I would be arm wrestling over the best ones...keeping both of us broke.) Borsalino ( pre 1984), Barbisio, Knox, Cervo, Cavanaugh, Portis, all used better quality methods. They were small operations ( in comparison to Stetson)with very very high standards. Others are Locke & Co., Gelot`, even Christy are better felt. the Stetson finishing is excellent so please bear in mind that the differences are slight and in most cases not really noticable to the normal hat wearing guy.
The brand that i like the most is Borsalino Marc. There are a few terrific German companies also that you should keep an eye out for. Huekel's make a terrific hat and you should be able to find them where you are. Generally speaking, the older the hat, the better the quality. The only Borsalinos that intrigue me are first, pre 1984 because it went from family owned to corporate at that point and went the way of all the other mass produced hats. For a while they even licensed their name to others ( Bollman is one) that weren't as discriminating. They do still license their name to a select few hatmakers in the US but nothing like 20yrs ago.
Since I'm not a stingy brim fan ( my face is too thin) I opt for 30s-mid 50s as my hat era.
Fedora, until the late 50s-early sixties I have not seen a hat that did not come from the maker with a sewn in liner. The tape is a later method strictly to save time. I use mostly tape because I haven't quite got the knack of sewing them in quickly yet. I DO sew in my hand made and special hats, but since so many of them are used for film rental, I don't waste the time. I actually did a film last year where all of the liners were removed!! Extras I assume, but boy was I steamed.

 

[fedoralover]

Thanks Art for the insights. I just sold a Huckel I had to a friend of mine. It never fit me right and the crown was just a little low for my taste. The felt was extremely soft and pliable. I'm glad I got a few gems before everyone knew about them. Probably my real prize is a Cavanagh 100. It came from an estate sale from a former governor of Maryland. It is probably early to mid 50s with the original price tag of $100 under the sweat band. When I come down at the end of March I'm going to bring it so you can give me your assessment of it.

regards fedoralover

 

[Fedora]

Appreciate the tips Art. My wife thanks you too. LOL I appreciate the Stetson statements. Now maybe the competition won't be as stiff and these hats will go for a lower price. I think before all of the hoopla started about vintage hats here and at COW, the prices were better. Of course, I may be partly to blame. Fedoralover kept it low key, but once old blabbermouth (me) got started buying em' and bragging....well..... :cry: I just need to know how to stop buying. It is a hard thing. regards, Fedora

 

[Art Fawcett]

I just need to know how to stop buying. It is a hard thing. regards, Fedora


Are you really asking ME ????? As if I knew how to stop buyingLOL

 

[Art Fawcett]

Fedoralover, PLEASE bring the Cav down when you come. I have never seen a Cav 100 and would love to feel the felt. The best in my personal collection is a Knox 50 and a Fabroc 40 as far as felt quality etc.

 

[fedoralover]

Art, I will bring it along with a Stetson Imperial. It's interesting to compare them side by side. I'm also going to bring a borsalino, I want to see if you have an idea of how old it is.

regards fedoralover

 

[Andykev]

My best

Art, maybe you can pitch two cents in on the hats I showed you..the Silver Beaver 50's in gray and chocolate brown..you remember those..how tight and creamy to the touch...YES I MEAN THE HAT

 

[Art Fawcett]

Both are creamy hats Andy, isn't one of them the McAndrew? Am I remembering it right? At any rate, both are top quality.

 

[Andykev]

They are

Silver Beaver 50 MacLachlan.....40's or late 30's.. very tall crown and wide brims. One bound edge, the other the Cavanagh edge.