Best Make brand very early "fedora"

[buler]

Sorry in advance for the crap pictures. I only had my ipod nano with so these are screen caps from video I took of the hat.

Found what I believe to be a late 1800's/early 1900's fedora. It has a soft crown with a derby stiff flanged brim. Too bad its in pretty rough condition but I'm still going to make an offer on it. Compares to many of the hats we see in the ads from the 1890's into the early 1900's.

B

1897 Ad:

1902 Ad:

 

[rlk]

Great Find! Hope to see more details if you can obtain it.

 

[buler]

Thanks, I'd love to get it just to clean it up. Its begging for some attention.

B

 

[rlk]

1888 Clothier & Furnisher

these are of the "best make"

 

[Baron Kurtz]

Nice hat. But the dating seems tenuous. Not saying it isn't that old, but colour me unconvinced.

The styling and typography of the liner - very often a better indicator of age than the "style" or features of a hat - seem awfully "1920s" to me.

bk

 

[hatophile]

Whatever it is, it's a cool looking old hat.

 

[buler]

Nice hat. But the dating seems tenuous. Not saying it isn't that old, but colour me unconvinced.

The styling and typography of the liner - very often a better indicator of age than the "style" or features of a hat - seem awfully "1920s" to me.

bk

I understand your position and would agree that "most" styling and typography of that era is usually very ornate. But there are always exceptions to the rule. Here are two pages of a hat catalog from 1900 where the logos are done with very blocky, non-ornate style type/fonts. While I'm not saying this is definitive evidence, I'm just pointing out that there were other styles used than the expected norm.

B

 

[Joshbru3]

Found what I believe to be a late 1800's/early 1900's fedora. It has a soft crown with a derby stiff flanged brim. Too bad its in pretty rough condition but I'm still going to make an offer on it. Compares to many of the hats we see in the ads from the 1890's into the early 1900's.

Great find Bill!! I'm very excited to see that one if you can obtain it. Its really neat to see an actual "soft hat," because here on the lounge we see derbies and top hats from the late 1800's/early 1900's, but never really see original "soft hats." I wonder why that is. Have less of them survived, or were they not that popular? I mean, eventually the "soft hat" became the fedora that we all know and love today, but I love the look of that stiff derby curled brim and the ability to shape the crown of the hat. It seems to have made perfect sense to me. :eusa_clap:eusa_clap

 

[rlk]

Nice hat. But the dating seems tenuous. Not saying it isn't that old, but colour me unconvinced.

The styling and typography of the liner - very often a better indicator of age than the "style" or features of a hat - seem awfully "1920s" to me.

bk

This a style which did not survive at all into the 20's--hardly into the 2nd decade of the century. Typography is a limited dating tool with the exception of a particularly unique short-lived style. The designer can choose an antique style or seek to project modernity. The same style can be used for decades.

The monochrome detailed printing black on white with elaborate layers of pleating is also consistent with pre 20's. Look through Clothier & Furnisher and other periodicals of the time and these graphics are much more like late 19th century or first 2 decades of the 20th than anything seen in the 20's. I can't give a explicit date-- especially without the hat or clear images, but it is entirely consistent with the earlier period and has little to nothing that would indicate 20's or later.

 

[mayserwegener]

Buler, Super find! I like seeing these really old ones. Looking forward to more details.

 

[mayserwegener]

Great find Bill!! I'm very excited to see that one if you can obtain it. Its really neat to see an actual "soft hat," because here on the lounge we see derbies and top hats from the late 1800's/early 1900's, but never really see original "soft hats." I wonder why that is. Have less of them survived, or were they not that popular? I mean, eventually the "soft hat" became the fedora that we all know and love today, but I love the look of that stiff derby curled brim and the ability to shape the crown of the hat. It seems to have made perfect sense to me. :eusa_clap:eusa_clap

They didn't appear to survive. Could be they just wore them out. There is a thread on here that showed some soft felts that were recovered from a sunk river boat. BTW the Fedora / Alpen style (see Robert's epic Fedora thread) was around at the same time period. I also have what I believe is a really old soft felt but it is of German / Austrian orgin. When I posted it a while it didn't get much notice.

 

[Joshbru3]

They didn't appear to survive. Could be they just wore them out. There is a thread on here that showed some soft felts that were recovered from a sunk river boat. BTW the Fedora / Alpen style (see Robert's epic Fedora thread) was around at the same time period. I also have what I believe is a really old soft felt but it is of German / Austrian orgin. When I posted it a while it didn't get much notice.

Its kind of a shame that these hats didn't survive. Im a sucker for anything pre-1930's, and a really big sucker for anything pre-1920's. Do you still have the pictures of the really old German / Austrian soft felt hat? I must have missed it. Thanks, Steve.

 

[danofarlington]

They didn't appear to survive. Could be they just wore them out. There is a thread on here that showed some soft felts that were recovered from a sunk river boat. BTW the Fedora / Alpen style (see Robert's epic Fedora thread) was around at the same time period. I also have what I believe is a really old soft felt but it is of German / Austrian orgin. When I posted it a while it didn't get much notice.

That gives me an E Bay idea. If I could get one of those copied, and type up a certificate of authenticity, and print a new sweatband that engraved "Sarah Bernhardt," I could put it up for bids. Actually to save money I could take the Frank Sinatra certificate of authenticiy, cross out "Frank Sinatra," and write in "Sarah Bernhardt." I wonder if it would fetch more than a Frank or Michael Jackson hat?

 

[buler]

Ok, I got back up to the mall and bought the hat. I cleaned it up as best I could without damaging the hat any further. The sweatband is really dried and I'm working on it with Pecards. I did manage to find the size tag behind the split, taped rear seam of the sweat. The ribbon pattern is very nice now that you can see it. The brim is very delicate and has cracked in a couple of places so I'm not handling it much. You can see the cotton cloth looking reed "tape" material. I'm hoping to soften the sweatband enough to at least get a peak behind it at some point. The top edge of the sweatband is rolled.

B

 

[buler]

Final pics:

 

[dhermann1]

How fascinating! I have nothing to add as far as guessing the age. But I find the ads interesting, as well. Many of the hat styles are named after noted men of the day. Presidents Harrison and Cleveland get a style, as do Admiral Dewey and General Miles (of Spanish American War fame). I'd bet that Hobson would also turn out to be a military man of note.
Edit: Ah, yes. Turns out that Richmond Hobson was a naval hero during the Spanish American War, and received great notoriety.
So he, and the others, all got hats named after them.

 

[The Wiser Hatter]

So you didn't buy straight away!!!! By the background in the image it was in a basic antique shop. Such fun, I would have bought just for the fun.

 

[animator]

I think it is a very nice looking hat! It should be a star attraction in the FL museum!

 

[alanfgag]

Such a great piece - I'm glad you brought it home and gave us a chance to see it close-up.

 

[rlk]

The center medallion graphics show many shapes and incising as well as subject stylistically common to American Eastlake Furniture and decorative arts, generally considered to span the 1875-1910 period.
If you are familiar with such things you will notice it readily. I can site examples if desired.