BBQ Grills, and more specifically, Kamados

[memphislawyer]

Looking for a new grill. I am ruling out gas as I find it does not impart any flavor, much less smokiness. Pellet grills have their allure, and can go low and slow for a brisket or butt or ribs, but my eye is on a Kamado for some reason. A friend has a Big Green Egg, but for half the price, I can get a Vision at Sams and get the stand and side boards. There is a Akorn at Home Depot for $299 (the Vision at Sams is $499) but it is not fully ceramic.

Any thoughts?

 

[hatsRme]

Weber is still one of the best engineered grills out there. Sure, the Asian-made kamados are intriguing, but for my money (and experience) the Weber can do low and slow with the same results. The difference seems to be the claim of longer-lasting burn with the ceramics, but once your temp and burn rate are set on a Weber, it'll go for hours, too. I've successfully done whole turkeys, Beef Brisket, PASTROMI(!) and even a boneless/skinless turkey breast that came out so tender and juicy that I'm salivating as I type this!! Just my experience, FWIW.

When is this meal planned?!

 

[tonyb]

Wish I had a better answer for you. I've been tempted by those ceramic jobs, too. For now I work with two Weber Kettles, which serve me quite adequately.

I'm no barbecue obsessive, but I appreciate that some are and are happy to pass along their knowledge free of charge. But I got one tip which I slap myself for not figuring out years sooner: cut off the oxygen when you're done cooking the sausage or the burgers or whatever it is you're cooking over direct heat. On Weber Kettles the fire is extinguished quickly when the vents are closed entirely. I often find that the charcoal is maybe half consumed, and can be put into the chimney and reignited. I used to go through a lot more charcoal than I do now. I cooked brats tonight (you really gotta cook 'em over coals), using lots of coals left over from a few days ago, supplemented with maybe a dozen fresh briquettes. And yes, I closed all the vents afterwards.

 

[HudsonHawk]

Weber kettles are nice for lots of things, but there is simply no comparison between them and ceramic kamados when it comes to heat generation, control, and retention. It's like comparing a Toyota Corolla with a Ferrari in a street race. The kamados can easily reach temperatures of 750+ degrees or keep as low as 200 degrees for 16-18 hours. A steel kettle simply cannot do that.

That said, it depends on what you want to do with it. If you wan to grill, a Weber is great. Easy to set up, easy to start, ready quickly, will hold heat for a good while. If you want to BBQ, I'd recommend something else. The kamados are great, but there are all manner of other types of pits that will do the low and slow, and for a lot less than the cost of the kamado. They are, however, much more work to use.

Bottom line is, consider how much you'd use it and for what. And how much ease of use means to you. The kamado is very versatile, quick, and basically idiot proof, but they cost an arm and a leg.

 

[tonyb]

One other tip: Just before you sit yourself down to eat some of that barbecue you've been tending for the previous several hours, take a shower and change into fresh clothes. I've found it likelier I'll really smell and taste the smokiness in the meat when I do that.

Remember when we were kids and we kept our cigarette smoking from the putatively responsible adults? Ever wonder, in retrospect, how the grownups couldn't have smelled that smoke on our hair and breath and clothing? I don't dismiss the possibility that in many cases the adults were willfully ignorant, or chose to disregard what they knew to be true. But I suspect that they often just plain didn't detect the smell. Many were smokers themselves, and smoking was allowed in restaurants and bars and most workplaces.

Wonder how long you have to live on a pig farm before you stop smelling it.

 

[Haversack]

I've been using a kamado since the '70s. My parents had one and I ended up getting my own after I got out of the service. I agree that a Weber kettle can do pretty much what a kamado can do but perhaps just not as well. One thing I've found over the years is the heat retention of the kamado's mass allows long slow cooking like nobody's business. For roasting a chicken, I'll build a very hot fire, add a small amount of soaked wood chips, (apple or mesquite), just before putting the bird in, and then closing the kamado up except for a finger's breadth opening in the bottom vent. I then forget about it for 2-3 hours. When I take the chicken out, it has crisp golden brown skin and the drumsticks pull away clean. A couple of things with the kamado: 1. Never use lighter fluid or some other petro-chemical lighting material. The flavor gets into the clay. 2. The first time you fire the kamado up after not using it for a while, (after the winter for example), its going to be smoky and slow to light as the clay will have absorbed a fair bit of moisture.

 

[tonyb]

^^^^^
Will they last a few decades of regular use? Easy enough to justify the initial expense, if so.

 

[Haversack]

tonyb asked: "Will they last a few decades of regular use? Easy enough to justify the initial expense, if so."

The Japanese kamados which I am most familiar with are made of thick fireclay. They are somewhat fragile and don't take well to lots of vibration and being knocked about. That being said, my large kamado which I got in 1988 still has its green paint job; none of its metal components' (ring & hinges, damper door, and trolley), have rusted; and all of its interior components less one are intact. I just this year had to replace the ceramic fire-grate with one of cast iron as I dropped the old one while emptying the old ash. I use it about 20-30 time a year and have always kept it under shelter or in a shed when not in use. My parents' kamado was bought in 1974 and my sister still uses it occasionally. The paint is gone and the top vent cover has been replaced. Otherwise, its still serviceable.

I used to have a small japanese kamado that I would take camping. It travelled padded in a wicker basket and managed to survive about six years. I extended its life somewhat by using furnace cement to piece the dome lid back together. I had to give up when the interior fire liner crumbled into about 30 pieces. Vibration from being driven around is what did it in. When the ceramic Big Green Eggs came to my attention in the late 1990s, I got one of their minis for camping. (They hadn't taken off yet and were much cheaper then). Its still in use and holding up well.

 

[memphislawyer]

The Akorn I saw at Home Depot was $299 and it is some sort of metal outside with a ceramic interior. The Pitt Boss at Costco is sold out ($399) and the Vision at Sams ($499 currently) are ceramic exterior also. Advantages of those three is that it comes with the holder for the Kamado and other included things (cover, sideboards) whereas the Large Big Green Egg is $799 and then the wheeled base is like $220 and sideboards are like another $70, which makes it at least twice as much as the ones I am looking at.

However, I do notice a great smokiness with the BGE that was not as present with my regular charcoal and totally absent with a gas grill

 

[tonyb]

I take it, then, that what the ceramic jobs have over more common consumer-grade barbecue grills (the ubiquitous Weber Kettle, say) is mass, primarily. Easier to maintain a consistent low (relatively) temperature with all that material heated to a uniform level, which won't dissipate or fluctuate so readily as it would with a sheet metal unit. No?

The few pits I've seen made to cook whole pigs were constructed of plate steel and concrete blocks. They had a certain Dogpatch quality, but they did the trick.

 

[tonyb]

The Akorn I saw at Home Depot was $299 and it is some sort of metal outside with a ceramic interior. ...

... However, I do notice a great smokiness with the BGE that was not as present with my regular charcoal and totally absent with a gas grill

I almost bought one of those a few months back. I may get one yet. Consumer reviews are almost uniformly glowing, although it appears the Akorns are new to this market so there are no reports as to their longevity.

I've never wanted for smokiness in meat cooked on a Weber Kettle, although getting such results involved a fair amount of wood chips and opening the unit a couple three times along the way. Those hinged grates make it easier, but you're still having to lift the lid, which of course drops the temperature. Our friend Haversack reports that on a Kamado he puts a whole chicken in the unit and leaves it be for two or three hours, with excellent results. If that $300 unit you're considering can do that, well, that would be money well spent.

 

[memphislawyer]

Tony, I am reading the same results you are. The Akorn does not look as well made or as substantial as the Vision or Pit Boss (Costco/Sam's) but is about half of what those are and comes with more. However, it looks like other than paint maybe flaking off, it would last well over 10 years and it comes with a cover as well. With wood chips, I have not gotten good results on a regular charcoal grill (I have a cheapie from Lowes, the square model, about $30). I guess I use too few chips even though I soak them for hours

My friend with the BGE uses lump charcoal which almost looks like sticks of wood. I hear you can buy actual sticks of hickory or apple wood and throw those on top. He uses an electric starter and in ten minutes the fire is up to 300 degrees. Thick steaks take 20 minutes and he shuts it down.

Yeah the kettle is the bomb diggity for regular charcoal grills and I can get one for $99, but the Kamado would make cooking a butt or brisker almost idiot-proof. Can start it in the morning, leave and come home for dinner and it is done. Or for parties on saturday watching football games, doing it from 10:00 that night and it is ready for lunch

 

[HudsonHawk]

I take it, then, that what the ceramic jobs have over more common consumer-grade barbecue grills (the ubiquitous Weber Kettle, say) is mass, primarily. Easier to maintain a consistent low (relatively) temperature with all that material heated to a uniform level, which won't dissipate or fluctuate so readily as it would with a sheet metal unit. No?

That's pretty much it. Metal simply dissipates heat too quickly to hold the kinds of temperatures that ceramic can.

The few pits I've seen made to cook whole pigs were constructed of plate steel and concrete blocks. They had a certain Dogpatch quality, but they did the trick.

You can make a pretty effective homemade kamado out of ceramic flower pots. I've even seen a toilet used as one. I hope it was a new one.

 

[tonyb]

In the Maritime Northwest, where alder spreads so rapidly it could overtake a suburban lawn in a couple of years if you didn't fight back, people still pay real money for dried and bagged alder chips. I'm guessing that rural Desert Southwesterners do the same with mesquite.

Cutting and chipping and drying is more trouble than most people care to put themselves through, for sure, which is why there's money in the wood chip biz.

In years past, when I lived in Seattle, where I had lived among people of modest means since moving there in 1968, and where I had friends and a since-departed brother who, along with myself, weren't the sort to pay money for something that could be scavenged for free (which indeed one was encouraged to do, because, as noted above, people wished to be rid of it), there were often chunks of wood lying about. Fruit trees grow well there also, so apple and pear and cherry could usually be found. I had three long-neglected and hence unruly apple trees myself -- an endless source of barbecue smoke, provided one kept up on the cutting and stacking well enough in advance that the wood had a chance to dry instead of rotting in that generally cool, often damp climate.

 

[tonyb]

...

I don't expect to do it, but this has me considering using a large glazed clay plant pot I happen not to have a plant in at present (never throw out a clay pot, especially not a large glazed one; them babes cost money) and a couple of grates salvaged from wherever I might find them and a large ceramic serving platter from the thrift store to use for a lid. If the pot is elevated three or four inches on bricks (or whatever) enough oxygen should get to the drain hole to keep a low, smoky fire going.

 

[HudsonHawk]

I don't expect to do it, but this has considering using a large glazed clay plant pot I happen not to have a plant in at present (never through out a clay pot, especially not a large glazed one; them babes cost money) and a couple of grates salvaged from wherever I might find them and a large c eramic serving platter from the thrift store to use for a lid. If the pot is elevated three or four inches on bricks (or whatever) enough oxygen should get to the drain hole to keep a low, smoky fire going.

You can also drill holes in ceramic, if you don't feel there are enough, then plug them up with aluminum foil to control air flow. It's easier on the unglazed terracotta, but you can do it on glazed too. It's pretty low tech, but works just fine. And there's always some satisfaction in MacGyvering your supper.

 

[tonyb]

Glazed pots hold up a whole lot better than unglazed ones. I've kept plants in glazed pots outdoors for years on end. Unglazed pots crumble after a couple three years.

But, and it's a big but, glazes just might pose a health hazard. I'd best look into that before proceeding any further. What's in those glazes? Might it get into the micro-atmosphere inside one's makeshift barbecue?

 

[SurfGent]

That's a neat idea. I'll have to look into making one of these

 

[HudsonHawk]

Glazed pots hold up a whole lot better than unglazed ones. I've kept plants in glazed pots outdoors for years on end. Unglazed pots crumble after a couple three years.

But, and it's a big but, glazes just might pose a health hazard. I'd best look into that before proceeding any further. What's in those glazes? Might it get into the micro-atmosphere inside one's makeshift barbecue?

Flower pot glazes can contain toxic substances, such as lead, but I'm not sure they'd get into your food from BBQing in them. It would take prolonged direct contact with something acidic to leach anything out of the pot. And unglazed clay pots can also contain chemicals and metals that are natural in the clay. I'd probably avoid painted pots, but I wouldn't think you'd have anything to worry about in unpainted pottery, glazed or otherwise, especially at the relatively low temperatures you'd be using.

 

[memphislawyer]

Went to view a Napolean grill. A higher end model of the Weber Kettle. Then saw and read up on the Webers. Really thinking a Kamado is overfill for me and the Weber premium model of the kettle, at $159, is what I want. The Napolean had cast iron grates, a plus, but they were thick, which means the average burger would be on the grate and not resting between the grates.