I really would like a B-3 type bomber jacket but have a few apprehensions with purchasing. My main concern is the quality of hide and construction, not necessarily historical accuracy. I know companies like Eastman and R.M.N.Z. top the list when it comes to historically accurate pieces, but I would like any input on the quality and construction of these jackets from companies like Schott, Cirrus, Lost Worlds, Sawyer of Napa etc...Thanks for your time!
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tommygun
New in Town
- Messages
- 32
- Location
- central illinois
I have a Schott B-3, it's absolutely incredible. Warmest jacket I have ever worn, I'm sure they're all great, just my experience.
I'd agree with BN above, except my experience was with Aviation Leathercraft and I had one of their Irvins before I upgraded to ELC, so for what it's worth, my advice is limited to that company only.
I've just had a look at the Aviation Leathercraft site and their B-3 has 1" wool - so it's a full 1/4" inch thicker than it was supposed to be. And the price is a lot more than my old Irvin back in 1987, which was 265 Pounds (a full month's wage for me as an apprentice as I was back then!). Their B-3 is now 650 Pounds (incl. VAT) !
Although not historically accurate to the original design specifications, it will be a reliable and tank-tough jacket in terms of hides, zip, construction and solid customer service and will be reliably warm and strong (like my old Irvin was) and its service life will be measured in decades - as some other B-3s will be from other manufacturers at that level - but at that price, I'd say it's getting up there and it would be better to invest that money in something more accurate and similarly warm, if not as warm. But that said, my brother still has his Irvin from 1989 (he wanted one when he saw mine then) and I've tried to talk him into upgrading to something more authentic, but he has no interest whatsoever as he still loves what he has and I get that.
A jacket that is too thick, though, may cause the problem of it being too warm on occasion - such as going from the cold outdoors to then spending time in a warm mall or pub - which can be a pain as then you're then holding on to a heavy jacket over your shoulder (as it's absolutely not something to put on the back of a chair and take your eye off or leave as you nip to the loo if you're in a bar! It's always wise to keep these things with you - or with a friend - at all times) - and a proper-weight B-3 is better.
But if you're driving an open-top car or riding a motorcycle, I can see an Aviation Leathercraft (or similar manufacturer) B-3 having an appeal that the other "finer" companies would struggle to compete with.
In terms of your hesitation, I would suggest that you give all the companies that draw your eye a ping and politely ask for swatches - and don't rule anyone out. See and feel their leathers and wools and you may find that you gravitate to one company over another in your communications (some make doing business a pleasure!) - and perhaps not the one you expected at the start of your investigations ... you never know! And hopefully you'll find a company that makes you want to pull the trigger ....
Hope that helps.
I've just had a look at the Aviation Leathercraft site and their B-3 has 1" wool - so it's a full 1/4" inch thicker than it was supposed to be. And the price is a lot more than my old Irvin back in 1987, which was 265 Pounds (a full month's wage for me as an apprentice as I was back then!). Their B-3 is now 650 Pounds (incl. VAT) !
Although not historically accurate to the original design specifications, it will be a reliable and tank-tough jacket in terms of hides, zip, construction and solid customer service and will be reliably warm and strong (like my old Irvin was) and its service life will be measured in decades - as some other B-3s will be from other manufacturers at that level - but at that price, I'd say it's getting up there and it would be better to invest that money in something more accurate and similarly warm, if not as warm. But that said, my brother still has his Irvin from 1989 (he wanted one when he saw mine then) and I've tried to talk him into upgrading to something more authentic, but he has no interest whatsoever as he still loves what he has and I get that.
A jacket that is too thick, though, may cause the problem of it being too warm on occasion - such as going from the cold outdoors to then spending time in a warm mall or pub - which can be a pain as then you're then holding on to a heavy jacket over your shoulder (as it's absolutely not something to put on the back of a chair and take your eye off or leave as you nip to the loo if you're in a bar! It's always wise to keep these things with you - or with a friend - at all times) - and a proper-weight B-3 is better.
But if you're driving an open-top car or riding a motorcycle, I can see an Aviation Leathercraft (or similar manufacturer) B-3 having an appeal that the other "finer" companies would struggle to compete with.
In terms of your hesitation, I would suggest that you give all the companies that draw your eye a ping and politely ask for swatches - and don't rule anyone out. See and feel their leathers and wools and you may find that you gravitate to one company over another in your communications (some make doing business a pleasure!) - and perhaps not the one you expected at the start of your investigations ... you never know! And hopefully you'll find a company that makes you want to pull the trigger ....
Hope that helps.
Xopher
A-List Customer
- Messages
- 434
- Location
- Pennsylvania
I agree with Stand By on a jacket being too warm. I had a shearling jacket I loved so much I wanted to wear it nonstop but it was so warm I simply could not use it more than 2 weeks out of the year, and I live in the Pennsylvanian mountains where its regularly in the 20s and that still wasn't could enough to wear it. Personally I think if you are getting into the realm of jackets that cost $1100 or more, don't bother will anything less than Goodwear, Eastman, or Aero.
Edward
Bartender
- Messages
- 25,074
- Location
- London, UK
The likes of Cirrus and ALC produce nice jackets, which sell well to the open-top car market who care about a warm, quality coat, but not accuracy to milspec. At the new price, they're so close nowadays to Aero or ELC that it's not worth opting for them as a cheaper compromise, but that said, if you find one you like used, they seem often to go for much less second hand than an Aero or ELC or w.h.y., so if you see one with which you would be perfectly happy as a civilianised version of the look, then they're worth considering.
Schott, Alpha and a few others do 'nice enough' versions of the B3, civilianised with handwarmer pockets, that you might also look at. I certainly would be very happy with the black vdersion of the Schott B3 if I found one at the right price, used. The quality on these is perfectly nice and they are good jackets; what they lack, again (and which you pay the extra for with the likes of Aero et al) are historically accurate details, specs, and bits.... All things which take time and labour for, at a price. Again, if you just don't care about accuracy - say, you want a black B3 (which of course, was never issued or made back in the day), then one of these will do you fine. Or if you find a cheap deal on one use, you might consider it as a 'through the Winter' option until you've saved up for the one you really want.
Another thought might be to look at What Price Glory. A few years ago, they did some budget Irvins that a lot of folks round here were impressed with. Some of the details were compromised (I believe it was a lighter fleece than the iriginal), but they were intended for reenactors who wanted an affordable jacket that looked the part, so they weren't a bad option for the money. I believe they also did a version on the B3, though I have had no direct experience of the same. Somebody round here must have handled one, though...
Schott, Alpha and a few others do 'nice enough' versions of the B3, civilianised with handwarmer pockets, that you might also look at. I certainly would be very happy with the black vdersion of the Schott B3 if I found one at the right price, used. The quality on these is perfectly nice and they are good jackets; what they lack, again (and which you pay the extra for with the likes of Aero et al) are historically accurate details, specs, and bits.... All things which take time and labour for, at a price. Again, if you just don't care about accuracy - say, you want a black B3 (which of course, was never issued or made back in the day), then one of these will do you fine. Or if you find a cheap deal on one use, you might consider it as a 'through the Winter' option until you've saved up for the one you really want.
Another thought might be to look at What Price Glory. A few years ago, they did some budget Irvins that a lot of folks round here were impressed with. Some of the details were compromised (I believe it was a lighter fleece than the iriginal), but they were intended for reenactors who wanted an affordable jacket that looked the part, so they weren't a bad option for the money. I believe they also did a version on the B3, though I have had no direct experience of the same. Somebody round here must have handled one, though...
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Some good thoughts above ...
And I was also thinking that I'd add that the reason my brother isn't interested in an upgrade is because he values the warmth of his ALC Irvin over any shortcomings in accuracy as he spends a lot of time in his workshop and garage (he's in Britain, so it's cool and damp) and on the Yorkshire moors flying his R/C aircraft and in cold parks sailing his R/C battleships on ponds - so he's outside in fresh weather and standing about for hours on end, so he's not exercising in it, and, in terms of warmth, it can't be bettered. So it really is perfect for him.
It all depends on what's important and what isn't (or is just less-so) - and that'll be the right choice for you.
My old ALC Irvin served me faithfully for 18 years and it looked a treat too by the end of its time with me - but I'd out-grown it on the chest. And my choices/preferences changed too as I got older and I wanted something more authentic so I went with ELC and the old ALC went on eBay. No regrets.
And I was also thinking that I'd add that the reason my brother isn't interested in an upgrade is because he values the warmth of his ALC Irvin over any shortcomings in accuracy as he spends a lot of time in his workshop and garage (he's in Britain, so it's cool and damp) and on the Yorkshire moors flying his R/C aircraft and in cold parks sailing his R/C battleships on ponds - so he's outside in fresh weather and standing about for hours on end, so he's not exercising in it, and, in terms of warmth, it can't be bettered. So it really is perfect for him.
It all depends on what's important and what isn't (or is just less-so) - and that'll be the right choice for you.
My old ALC Irvin served me faithfully for 18 years and it looked a treat too by the end of its time with me - but I'd out-grown it on the chest. And my choices/preferences changed too as I got older and I wanted something more authentic so I went with ELC and the old ALC went on eBay. No regrets.
Cooper A-2
Practically Family
- Messages
- 933
- Location
- France
Aces High, ELC and Aero are the best in quality, crafmanship, leather/hides and metalware.
Have/had them all in various versions.
You may buy whatvever suits you if accuracy to original WW2 issued jackets are not important to you...
However, be prepared to sell the non accurate jackets with a big loss...ELC, AERO ACES HIGH jackets are an investment...losses when selling are never as huge as others...
Your priorities are yours only...
Have/had them all in various versions.
You may buy whatvever suits you if accuracy to original WW2 issued jackets are not important to you...
However, be prepared to sell the non accurate jackets with a big loss...ELC, AERO ACES HIGH jackets are an investment...losses when selling are never as huge as others...
Your priorities are yours only...
