Anybody know how light-color fur-felt hats are made?

[H Weinstein]

I've been told that making light pastel-colored fur-felt hats is a more complex process than with dark colors.
Does anybody know why that is? Are truly light-color hats (white, silver belly, ivory, for example) still dyed, as with darker colors? Or is there a bleaching process first, to get the felt light enough -- lighter than "natural" -- so it can be made into a light color product?

I reviewed the excellent Winchester Hat factory tour thread, and didn't see anything about differences in the process between light and dark color hats.

Just curious and wondered if any of the hat mavens here might know. Thanks!

 

[jlee562]

Don't know the definitive answer to your question, but Winchester does make an undyed natural felt, which Art uses. Optimo, and I think a few custom western hatters, have an undyed silverbelly felt.

 

[job]

This may shed some light.

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1478-4408.1950.tb02610.x/pdf

 

[barrowjh]

It may not have been mentioned in the Winchester factory tour thread, but their raw fur inventory does include bales of bleached fur. I think they clean down the entire factory a bit before even beginning a run with the bleached fur, especially if the end result is going to be white and similar colors. Greg Fiske showed us bleached fur. Starting out with bleached fur the lighter colors become an option. I guess we could start a debate about whether the bleaching process changes the 'hand' of the felts that result. I cannot really opine, have not compared same grade fur felt light vs dark, something I should remember to do next time I visit a hatter with an inventory of hoods.

 

[gtdean48]

I talked with Art about the difference in my Natural Beaver ArtLite & my Blue Smoke Beaver ArtLite. The Blue Smoke is lighter because it is made with bleached fur then dyed to get the lighter colors. Darker colors are dyed natural beaver. The bleaching does "lighten" up the bodies.

 

[tonyb]

The following is wholly anecdotal, but it's based on a few years of experience, which counts for something ...

It's generally easier to get a soft, smooth hand with the "pastel" (light colored) hat bodies. It's not that the darker colors never pounce out as well as the lighter ones, just that the lighter colors seem to take to it more readily.

 

[barrowjh]

Thanks Tom and Tony, maybe the bleaching process softens the individual hairs, takes some stiffness out or something like that. For the fur to come out lighter in weight something had to go.

 

[mayserwegener]

I know that natural white rabbit is also used. I saw the process (from white rabbit fur pelt to felt hood) when I visited TONAK. I believe Vespa has both bleached (also beaver) and natural white rabbit fur.

There is also the mixing of pre dyed furs. What looks like a solid color from afar might actually be a mix of different colored furs. This old Mayser (the color and finish mimic the European Mole "Talpa") is a great example. You will not find anything like this today.

Hat companies that produced their own felt were especially protective of the processes they used(finishes, dyes, ect).

 

[barrowjh]

mayerswegener that is a beautiful felt. We have often seen a mix of pre-dyed fur felted together to produce the 'heather' felts, this brown is the first time I have seen what appears to be two near colors blended together, gives the end result a sort of richness & depth. Beautiful!

 

[H Weinstein]

This may shed some light.

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1478-4408.1950.tb02610.x/pdf

Where did you find that?!? Who even knew there WAS a Society of Dyers and Colourists -- and with their own Journal, no less!
But, yes, this does mention use of a bleaching agent.

 

[TheDane]

We have often seen a mix of pre-dyed fur felted together to produce the 'heather' felts, this brown is the first time I have seen what appears to be two near colors blended together, gives the end result a sort of richness & depth. Beautiful!

Natural heathered (undyed) felt is actually not that rare among vintage hats. As far as I know, Fepsa in Portugal still sell genuine heather bodies ... I don't know if that is what they use at Optimo(?)

 

[mayserwegener]

Yes you still see heathered (mixed dyed / natural felts) felts today. I know TONAK also produces (I saw them being made) them along with FESPA. TONAK only uses rabbit and hare PA is a post WWII to company. Also the color produced in the Mayser TALPA (see above) was unique even for the time period (1930/40s). I will take close-ups when I get a chance. It's an amazing piece of felt (color, finish, hand).

Here is another color + finish you are not going to see today.

JHS Superior Crystal Velour probably early 1930s.

 

[TheDane]

Fepsa was formed in the 60s, but as a fusion of a handful of old companies dating back to the 1800s. It's a post WWII company - and yet not

Beautiful hats! An almost metallic sheen ... outstanding!

 

[mayserwegener]

I am not sure how much impact Portuguese Felt producers hade pre FEPSA. I do not recall coming across anything about the Portuguese hat trade in pre WWII trade journals.

Also here is a comparison I did recently. You can see a difference in the pre 40s black Seal Velour (the dye and finishing are slightly better). Achieving such results (dye and finishing processes) was what set companies apart (in this case JHS).

http://germanaustrianhats.invisionzone.com/index.php?/topic/135-j-hueckel%c2%b4s-soehne-zephyr-seal-velour-late-1930s-vs-tonak-formely-hueckel-zephyr-seal-velour-late-1940s-early-1950s/

 

[TheDane]

Very illustrative comparison. And if there ever was a bitchy color, then black is the one, and not only when it comes to hats! It's hard to dye and it's hard to ensure a surface, that will not show weak 'spot-reflection' over time - and thereby loose the blackness.

Actually I just found out, that Fepsa has a website ... that is new to me. This is what they write about their history.

 

[mayserwegener]

Thanks! You are totally spot on!

It's interesting that they were able to make a go of it after WWII. The Portuguese didn't have any major players pre WWII and were late to totally mechanize.

Here is the fur side of the operation.

Cortadoria Nacional de Pêlo, S.A.

http://www.cortadoria.pt/

[video=vimeo;56605573]http://vimeo.com/56605573[/video]