A2 novice question

[pipvh]

First, a confession: I've never really liked A2s. In fact I've disliked them quite a lot. I don't like the collar or the waist. And I've always been pretty certain that they'd look really bad on me.

Weeell... I made a fatal mistake, the other day, of wandering into American Classics in Covent Garden and trying on an Eastman Leather jacket. It wasn't actually an A2 but an M-422A, but the leather, the colour of the knits, the quality... I'm not a fan of action backs, so I wouldn't actually buy an M-422A or a G1. So then I began to think about A2s...

I've worked out that what I really don't like about them (and please note that this is my own point of view relating to how I know they'd look on me, not on other people) is the waist. The collar is no longer a problem, now that I've seen Aero's mouton-collared version. But the waist... The way the knit pulls in the waist so that the leather pouches out above it in a sort of lifebelt way. But I've tried on old, very vintage knit-waist jackets which hang straight because the knit has lost all its elasticity.

Now, I realize that this constitutes blasphemy from a purist (and probably every other) point of view, but does any maker do a jacket with a waist that might be described, for want of a better word, as knackered? A jacket that hangs straight and unpouched, but still looks like a Dubow 27798 or a Good Wear seal 21996?

Thanks for any and all suggestions, and go easy on a new arrival on the shores of A2 enthusiasm, please!

 

[captaincaveman1]

You're certainly entitled to express your opinion - that's what this whole forum is about.

Perhaps the "Indy" jacket might suit you better? It's basically an A-2 w/o knits.

I also used to hate the A-2. It isn't the most flattering of jackets but I learned to like it.

 

[FLATHEAD]

Actually Aero Leather in Scotland does a verson of an A-2 without the
bottom rib nits.

The jacket is an open, straight bottom like you are describing.

Check them out. They are not cheap, but it might be what your looking for.

Its called an HG-5. Here is a picture of it:

Aero can remove the chest pocket and put the front pockets on with the
flaps like an A-2 has. I think they even had a version of this on their website
at one point. They can even put the rib nits on the end of the sleeves
instead of up inside like the version I have posted.

They can do just about anything you want!

Jim

 

[Speedbird]

Pip at large in London

Pip, you should really curtail your Portobello and King's Road wanderings! Especially Covent Garden! It can't be good for you!

In all seriousness, I guess it all depends on budget etc ... but if you wanted to experiment with the look you could do far worse than follow Captain Caveman's suggestion. Wested at least is in Swanley and close enough to your London excursions to visit and try on for the fit you want. Their ROLA jacket kind of fits your description and is not expensive at all and is readily re-saleable in case you decide it's not your thing afterall. (Unfortunate in a way the jacket is so inextricably linked with just one 'hero' - but then at least Wested does hold claim to the genesis of the thing and there are worse things to be associated with).

Failing that, in any no name 1980's A-2 copy there is a chance the elasticity will have long since disappeared or could be encourage to do so... At risk of banging on about my favourite company, a very early Avirex (pre -1983) might work but finding one will be a different matter.

Given your tinkering abilities you could probably find two or three orphans in charity shops and make what you want. That would be an interesting thing to see!

Of course the other thing to do is search the wholesale/direct sales leather shops in Whitechapel and Shoreditch etc unless it simply has to be vintage.

 

[pipvh]

Hey, thanks, chaps!

The problem - and it's ridiculous, I know - is that I like the knit waist. I like the contrast and I really like the red of the Dubow and other contracts - the way it contrasts with the seal leather. I just don't like it to be... functional. I suppose I could just stretch it until the elasticity goes, but that seems a bit pointless. I've seen photos of A2s that seem to hang straighter than others - or is that my imagination?

 

[Papa M]

I've seen photos of A2s that seem to hang straighter than others - or is that my imagination?

My size 44 Eastman Pearl Harbour A2 hangs straighter than my size 44 Aero A2. Generally the Aero is much more "trim" all around.

I've got an old early 90s Avirex A2 that is really floppy and hangs right down across my backside. Maybe by buying big you'll achieve the look you require?

 

[Speedbird]

Hey, thanks, chaps!

The problem - and it's ridiculous, I know - is that I like the knit waist. I like the contrast and I really like the red of the Dubow and other contracts - the way it contrasts with the seal leather. I just don't like it to be... functional. I suppose I could just stretch it until the elasticity goes, but that seems a bit pointless. I've seen photos of A2s that seem to hang straighter than others - or is that my imagination?

I guess that means you are back where you started - you need one that is an authentically trim fitting but totally knackered in the knit department! And a red rather than brown knit to boot. That sounds a lot like an original

This is going to be some hunt to track this down I feel!

 

[captaincaveman1]

Do a search on Jansolo. He appears to have been able to pull of the look you're looking for i.e. knit jacket without the blousiness.

 

[Papa M]

Do a search on Jansolo. He appears to have been able to pull of the look you're looking for i.e. knit jacket without the blousiness.

Our good friend Jan Solo is 12 years old with 26" waist and hips.lol

The rest of us desperately struggle to reproduce his cool look!

 

[Speedbird]

^^^^^^ lol lol lol lol lol ^^^^^^

 

[captaincaveman1]

Our good friend Jan Solo is 12 years old with 26" waist and hips.lol

The rest of us desperately struggle to reproduce his cool look!

lol lol so true...

Middle age is when your age starts to show around your middle. -Bob Hope

 

[Mr Badger]

The 'blousey' nature of the G1 and A2 is an acquired taste, to be sure, but if you get one that fits well, it shouldn't be pronounced. I, too, turn away in horror whenever I see an A2 with huge gathers across the bottom of the back – yeuch!

I nabbed an ex-USN Cooper G1 off ebay a few years back and a portly gent must've worn it cos it was quite paunchy at the front for the first few months I wore it. However, given the thin nature of the waistband and the fact that I gave it a going over with hide feed, it's now has much more of a 'straight' hang, with no pronounced gather across the back of the waist.

Likewise, I found an early-80s Cooper A2 in a local charity (thrift) store a few years back and, although I believe they've enlarged the fit somewhat, it wasn't noticeably blousey.

Both of these Cooper jackets are fairly plentiful on Ebay and good quality for the moolah. Mebbe other FD-ers could enlighten us about how to spot earlier Coopers, as opposed to later runs with the more blousey cut...

I normally take a 44 jacket but my goatskin Aero A2 is a 46, which is great as I can get a sweater on underneath it in the Winter, and it's pretty trim-fitting all round but comfortable...

 

[pipvh]

Hmmm. A fair amount to chew over here, gents!

The look that Jansolo is sporting is exactly what I'm after (I found that thread a few days ago). I wonder if I asked Aero to cut the jacket slim and fit an unstretched knit so that there was no gathering effect on the leather - that might creat the effect. I'm a fan of the ELC Air Comfort as well, but they don't do custom work, so I'm not even going to bother going that route.

 

[Cobblers]

Have a look on the Good Wear website and you'll see that the blousing is down to contract design, some are slim some are blousy. If you are willing to fork out a fair amount of cash you can specify your desires to JC.

Sometimes it'll be the tightness of the waist knit that forces the jacket up creating a paunch so to speak, so one that is fitted more relaxed and not 'knackered' would suit you fine. Also if it's not too long in the body you'll help avert the blousy look.

I know what you are describing and after owning a large-ish number of repro A-2's I've had only one that does this. An Eastman Werber would also be worth consideration due to it's trim fit.

A-2's.... Can't beat 'em! I love 'em.

 

[Dudleydoright]

Pip,
If you like knits but not 'tight' knits, then do what I have done in the past:

Take jacket and using a shower head soak the knit in hot water, squeeze dry and hang the jacket up to dry by one side of the zipper bottom or t'other and let it's self-weight stretch it out. That makes it very loose. By strtching the jacket out to what you want and letting dry on the floor with no effort to stretch the knits out under the weight of the jacket you will get something in between.

You can also re-tighten tired knits by soaking as above and letting dry whilst not straining the knit.

Dave

 

[pipvh]

Thanks, Dave. That's a good solution, especially as it's reversible...

Meanwhile, my current favourite original A-2 is this one:

The W535-AC-23383 shown on Acmedepot: http://www.acmedepot.com/a2jacket/a2detail2.html. I particularly like the small pockets.

 

[Speedbird]

definitive beginners/intermediate/advanced guide to A-2's: does one exist?

Pip, the link you gave above - is this the nearest thing to a reliable, single source of accurate information on A-2's? It's really a top link but:

I was lying awake last night trying to imagine a system to pull all A-2 info together in an easy to follow guide, perhaps a table, grid or a kind of spreadsheet listing make down the left axis and a whole series of categories across the top axis to identify A-2's and guide personal choices like:

Make/Contract No/original or repro/standard features/distinguishing features/unique or anomalous features..... desirability, accuracy, wearability ratings ... etc

Then I realised it would be an enormous undertaking, possibly several lifetimes work .... and probably nigh on impossible....

but if anyone has done it, it will either be here in the Lounge or known by Loungers.

Anyone know?

 

[sixties.nut]

Are you looking for something like this

http://home.comcast.net/~jchapman2004/ebay.html

 

[pipvh]

Are you looking for something like this

Cripes! Yeah, probably...

 

[Edward]

I agree with the above comments, it's all a matter of fit. Some jackets are a baggier, blousier fit (the commercial 80s bomber jacket look is a monstrous characateur of this); a bousey jacket pulle in at the waist by the knits will have that look. Worth looking into a trimmer cut to find one that doesn't give that look you dislike.

The G1 and related style USN jackets were in general cut much trimmer than the A2s, so you'd get the slimness you desire with one of those, though the trade off is that this neater fit was facilitated by the action back. Without that, they'd be too tight to move comfortably. I'd be looking again at one of those unless you really can't live without it - otherwise you're into looking for an A2 that has the fit you want, plus getting it modded with a mouton collar. Aero do do their CBI Field Modified A2 model with mouton, harkening back to the modified A2s worn by the AVG/Flying Tigers prior to the USA's official entry into the war against Japan - not sure of the fit, though. Aero are also very open to moification of any of their jackets. My A2 is an Eastman I bought used (for less than half price!). Eastman do beautiful jackets which, I understand, are just a touch more accurate than the Aeros, though their busniess model is slightly different: focussed as they are on producing jackets as historically accurate as possible, they don't do anything custom so you'd have to go elsewhere for the collar. John's Goodear jackets are really the best A2s on the market and from what I gather he'd work with you. I would love one (now, since finding a deal on the Eastman, I have my eye on the civilian Californian Ventura model), but the strong dollar / weak pound means I can't stretch to it just yet.