A Culture of Snark

[Fletch]

I think it may be hard to judge our own time, vs. previous eras. By the time we are looking back on this time period, perhaps much of the "lesser" snarkyness will have faded from memory, and only the classic pieces - Marx Brothers, etc. - will remain. Then those in a future decade will lament their own attitudes, and see only the good bits of ours, and long for our bygone better era.

And no doubt some folks on a far distant Ballcap Coffeebar will regale one another with tales and quotes of the "lessers" of our day.

And perhaps, come 2067, even openly trade recordings.

 

[happyfilmluvguy]

The IMDB boards are especially pathetic for their combination of mama's-basement tough guy snarkiness and imbecilic fandom

Amen to that. Those boards are murderous. It's rough and very interesting to read at the same time. Take a look at the most innocent movie/television/actor/actress/director, etc listing on there. Such negativity and violence on those boards. But I bet they'd never say a word if they were locked in a room together.

Human interaction brings fear to many. That's another aspect of today. I see it all around. People are ignoring each other on the street, and terrorizing each other on the computer. We as human beings are afraid to face each other.

 

[Dan G]

Armchair Commandos and Chairborne Rangers....

 

[reetpleat]

Lizzie, you're absolutely right. I've been observing the same thing for a long time, and I've gotten awfully depressed about it.

The dominant mode of nearly everything nowadays is irony: everything exists merely to be laughed at, put down, and generally not taken seriously. Back when SNL and David Letterman were cutting edge, this stuff was pretty funny... but now that it's *ubiquitous and assumed*, it's a sad commentary on the times. Everything from alleged "reality shows" and mean-spirited sitcoms to faux-news shows like The Colbert Report is based on the snark principle.

You know, I grew up in the 60s and early 70s, and as confused and polarized as that time was, there was idealism, and there was passion on all sides. Everybody believed in *something*. Now hardly anybody believes in anything. Everything is a potential gag, just more grist for the mill.

And, as I have observed in my own teenage kids, it's doing damage to the younger generations. They are growing up in a time when not only is nothing sacred, but everything exists solely for its punchline potential. So of course they can't be expected to believe in anything or take anything seriously: they haven't been exposed to much of that, except in the old-school movies and TV that I have shown them. In today's world, anything is good for a laugh, and anything or anyone seemingly worth believing in is bound to become a scandal sooner or later...

The thing is, I am no raging reactionary who thinks the world is going to hell: I'm a hardcore liberal/libertarian who still retains some of that 60s idealism I grew up with (and being weaned on Mad magazine, I ate up all that SNL, SCTV, Python, Airplane!, and other snarky humor that I could)... And despite being here, I really don't want to live in the past... the present is certainly demonstrably better in most ways...

But as a society, I think we seem to have skipped off the track somewhere!

To play the devil's advocate, wasn't it your generation that realized that everything that was supposed to be so sacred and keep us going along with the party line was not so special or necesserily deserving of reerence. Politics, relgion, social conventions. NOthing was sacrad anymore, and as someone who is probably like minded politically, thank god for them and that.

But I do think that irony seems to be the last refuge of an uncreative sense of humor. You can quote me if you like.

Of course, I love Steven Colbert. He is hilarious and an incredible improviser.

I guess I would have to say, a lot of this sems to have started with Letterman who was good at it. Most of his imitators are not. It is not easy to pull off.

 

[carebear]

Human interaction brings fear to many. That's another aspect of today. I see it all around. People are ignoring each other on the street, and terrorizing each other on the computer. We as human beings are afraid to face each other.

Some of us are maybe.

Some others would be more than happy to see the code duello reauthorized for a season or two. I tell you what, civility would rapidly increase in the short term if some folks had to defend their words with their bodies.

 

[Elaina]

So in terms of civility, just how is one supposed to react to the snarky when faced with it?

A number of people feel the need to do so to you, or within earshot. I'm (unfortunately) not one of these people that take kindly to it, or actually let it go when it's directed to me or my family.

To that end, I don't go out in public if I can help it. Not that I can't back my own snarkiness up, either verbally (or in my younger more wild days, physically). Not a fear, exactly. I'm polite to the majority of people until inclined to be otherwise.

Snarkiness is everywhere. Here is better then others, and I often reply, then delete to not cause that much waves (I like it here.)

Editing to add: And in our current society, do we see snarkiness where none is intended? Do people just suck, and we see it as something different then what it was meant?

(I should go to bed. And get anti-depressants. It would probably help. )

 

[Flivver]

I dunno -- I tend to see that more as being hard on what she represents in the films, namely the blowhard upper classes. Note that you never saw La Dumont cast in the role of a harried working-class housewife or scrubwoman taking abuse from Groucho.

I "discovered" the Marx Brothers as a teen, and it was precisely their ability to take the wind out of the sails of pompous people that appealed to me so much (and it still does!). But they did it in a gentler more classy way than the snarky approach we see today.

I think that, to some degree, each new generation feels it has to out-cool, out-hip and out-snark the previous generations; thus leading to the advanced level of snark we see today. But that still doesn't make it something I want to endure on a daily basis.

 

[LizzieMaine]

Miss Lizzie, is it considered "snark" if you have the sharp wiseacre tongue, but express it articulately and with intellect, rather than four-letter crudities?

Well, I think the difference between snark and wit is more a matter of where it's coming from -- snarkers seem to have this overbearing attitude of "I'm just SO above you and therefore I'm entitled to put you down" whereas wit comes across to me as emerging more from an underdog's mentality. In other words, the way I see it is that snark is aggressive -- often offensively so -- where wit is defensive.

As far as how to react to snark is concerned, I used to respond kind for kind -- and when I wanted to, I could take the mickey out of just about anyone. But I never felt good about myself afterward -- rather, I found that I usually felt sorry for what I'd said. So now, if someone tries to snark me -- my mouthy sister, for example -- I just shake my head and walk away. That way I can at least feel like I'm part of the solution instead of part of the problem.

 

[Senator Jack]

Perhaps everyone got snarky when they realized how unsuccessful they were at being 'sarky'. Don't know how Lewis Carroll's fabulous mythical 'Snark' usurped 'sarky' for 'sarcasm', so if anyone can point me to an etymology, I'd be obliged.

Regards,

Senator Jack: A Quinn/Martin Production

 

[Paisley]

"Years ago my mother used to say to me, she'd say, "In this world, Elwood, you must be" - she always called me Elwood - "In this world, Elwood, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant." Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. You may quote me."

from Harvey

 

[Marc Chevalier]

Snarkiness may be relative. In the '30s, there were plenty of people (and movie critics) who condemned the Marx Brothers as ultra-snarky.

.

 

[Paisley]

So now, if someone tries to snark me -- my mouthy sister, for example -- I just shake my head and walk away. That way I can at least feel like I'm part of the solution instead of part of the problem.

It's not much fun to insult somebody who retains her calm and dignity.

 

[Lee Lynch]

If there's one word that could sum up today's pop culture, it's "snarky" -- that sort of swaggering, wiseacre attitude that sees everything and everyone as fair game for rude, crude commentary. My generation had the National Lampoon and the original Saturday Night Live as the spearheads of this attitude, and even as insulated as I was from much of the pop culture of the '70s, I couldn't help but absorb some of this attitude myself. There was a time when I could be quite lethal with my wisecracks, as my tenth-grade English teacher never fails to remind me whenever I run into her.

But now I find that, the older I get, the less appealing I find this sort of "wit." The blogosphere is saturated in snarkiness, you can't turn on commercial radio without being inundated by talkmeisters scrambling to out-snark each other, and movie and TV comedy are pretty much non-stop snark. We see it all around us, it's part of the cultural landscape, and it never seems to stop.

And I am *so sick of it.*

As far as I can tell, the Culture of Snark stopped being funny a long time ago, and frankly, a lot of it never *was* funny. Am I right? Or am I just becoming a cranky middle aged lady who's one step away from yelling at the neighborhood kids to stay off her lawn?

I'm with you on this, Lizzie.

I view snark as one more weapon in the war on social grace. I dislike how it affects personal conversations, to the affect that people close to one another will snipe at each other with rude little simplistic phrases like, "well, DUH!", (<---insert dim-witted valley girl enunciation here), and I've been motivated at times to retort with a "Well, excuse me" to show how rude and over-reactive they are being.
As someone who has grown up with all manner of gamer types and pc geeks, I can't afford to be too offended by snark, but I do view it as something to offer resistance to whenever I can.

 

[Twitch]

Lizzie- take a look at the old MASH reruns where Alan Alda and BJ are continually trying to out-do each other in glib comments throughout the whole show. That's what everyone today seems to be emulating. Everyone's a comedian!

 

[Paisley]

I see a lot of Groucho Marx when I watch Alan Alda in M*A*S*H.

I used to think it was hilarious when they one-upped Frank Burns or pulled a prank on him, but now I also think it was really unprofessional for doctors at a hospital. Maybe I'm turning into a dowager, but I really wouldn't want to have any of them for coworkers. (Yes, I know it's just a show. )

 

[Marc Chevalier]

...people close to one another will snipe at each other with rude little simplistic phrases like, "well, DUH!", (<---insert dim-witted valley girl enunciation here), ...

This is one of the lamest snarks and always has been: back in the '30s, folks threw around such annoying phrases as "No kidding, Sherlock!" and "Well, ain't you a regular Einstein!" Snarky then, snarky now.

.

 

[happyfilmluvguy]

This is one of the lamest snarks and always has been: back in the '30s, folks threw around such annoying phrases as "No kidding, Sherlock!" and "Well, ain't you a regular Einstein!" Snarky then, snarky now.

.

I don't believe there was ever a time when we were any less snarky than we are now. It's the value of it that's changed. We were human then, and we are human now. I'm still waiting for my third arm to grow.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

Agreed. And yet, some folks look upon yesteryear's examples of snarkiness as 'quaint' and 'colorful.' Makes you wonder if people in the future will see "Well, duh!" as clever and charming.


.

 

[happyfilmluvguy]

Agreed. And yet, some folks look upon yesteryear's examples of snarkiness as 'quaint' and 'colorful.' Makes you wonder if people in the future will see "Well, duh!" as clever and charming.


.

well, duh! It took you that long to figure that out?

I'm kidding.

 

[reetpleat]

Lizzie- take a look at the old MASH reruns where Alan Alda and BJ are continually trying to out-do each other in glib comments throughout the whole show. That's what everyone today seems to be emulating. Everyone's a comedian!

good point. It may have been a seventies thing, but I think the point was to show how powerless they felt and resorted to alcohol and wit as an aattemtp to deal with it.

On the other hand, their comments, while kind of corny, were based on clever word play. SOmething very missing in sarcasm and irony. Sarcasm and irony take very little effort.