A brand new, energy efficient 1930's house

[David Conwill]

What a nice exercise. Thanks for sharing that, Scot. Although I must say, shame on them for building new and not relocating an existing building for rehab. There are historic buildings all over the place (here at least, I'm not so sure about the UK) that are facing demolition and could be had for the hauling away. As we in the preservation community like to say - the greenest building is the one already built!

-Dave

 

[Forgotten Man]

Ya know, it wont be a 1930s house if they build it today... and, it wont be a 1930s home if it ain’t got 1930s stuff in it!

Its just going to be a study to see if they can make an old structure go green

You know, the whole thing about carbon dioxide is silly really... don't we humans emit carbon dioxide? Should we breathe less to save the planet? lol

Carbon dioxide emissions do not dictate weather patterns or temperatures... nature dose that. We can not control the weather no matter how much we like to think we can! Weather patterns have change all the time... we see trends in the weather and we think the whole globe is warming up because of us... well, in history, the globe has cooled and warmed up... always changes. And that was before most modern inventions such as automobiles, power plants, the light bulb and the industrial revolution!

Not saying that we shouldn’t use a little less and be wise about consumption, but, the whole “global warming” propaganda is something I can’t buy into.

Think about it.

 

[Miss_Bella_Hell]

Ya know, it wont be a 1930s house if they build it today... and, it wont be a 1930s home if it ain’t got 1930s stuff in it!

Its just going to be a study to see if they can make an old structure go green

You know, the whole thing about carbon dioxide is silly really... don't we humans emit carbon dioxide? Should we breathe less to save the planet? lol

Carbon dioxide emissions do not dictate weather patterns or temperatures... nature dose that. We can not control the weather no matter how much we like to think we can! Weather patterns have change all the time... we see trends in the weather and we think the whole globe is warming up because of us... well, in history, the globe has cooled and warmed up... always changes. And that was before most modern inventions such as automobiles, power plants, the light bulb and the industrial revolution!

Not saying that we shouldn’t use a little less and be wise about consumption, but, the whole “global warming” propaganda is something I can’t buy into.

Think about it.

I'm just itching to dive into this and argue but....politics.

 

[Forgotten Man]

I'm just itching to dive into this and argue but....politics.

can't touch me! JK

Well, where I'm coming from is simple logic... if one looks at what some of the items "going green" requires, you can count me out! For instance, the revolutionary compact fluorescent bulb is a crock! Yes, it will save money on the electric bill and use less... however, it is a dangerous thing to have in ones home. Compact fluorescent bulbs contain led in the ballast component, and also mercury in the fluorescent tubes. Would we want one of those to break in our homes? Sounds toxic to me... also, how to dispose of such a thing costs money! You can't just throw one away like a burned out incandescent bulb.

Saving energy is a good thing, I'm not against it, I'm against the methods that the modern world is trying to convince us is safe and good to the environment to use. Pollution levels in California are at an all time low! In the 1950s and into the 70s the levels of smog and air pollution were higher then ever! My father recalled when he first moved to California in the 60s that my Grandma and him HAD to take cover in an air-conditioned restaurant because, if they were out side their eyes and lungs burned like mad. Now, it's not nearly as bad as that today.

 

[Miss_Bella_Hell]

Two things:

First. There is a thread somewhere about how old thermometers (used to take temperatures of sick people) were so much better. Everyone seemed to agree. What did they contain? Mercury. Paint in the Golden Era? Lead. The outcry about the lead/mercury content in the new bulbs vs. the thread about the old thermometers is notable to me.

Second. Global Warming. Whether you buy into it or not is up to you, but my understanding is the science is there. If you come at it from a human perspective however, i.e., don't dump cancer causing stuff into the environment because it kills people, I think that's pretty sound reasoning.

 

[Forgotten Man]

If the led in paint and the mercury in thermometers was so bad to have caused a band on them, shouldn’t the same be applied to lighting our homes? Further more, if led and mercury is bad for our environment, why are these fluorescent bulbs any different?

Also, the State of California caused a huge stink on the import of glass bottles from other states and Mexico for importing soda bottles with traces of led in the paint in the labels! Why is it “ok” and important for us to switch to fluorescent that contain the same ingredients that has been band in everything else?

There are several, if not more holes in the idea of global warming and astronomers are finding out that the globe is going into a state of “cooling” and not warming.

True science doesn’t lie, but political science does! Political science is only there to push the agendas they are about. Pure and simple.

All I’m asking is for people to wake up and look at facts, and question what is being spouted by so many today.

 

[Miss_Bella_Hell]

I think the whole thing about lead and mercury is right! It's clearly bad. I just think the Lounge is funny sometimes. "Well, the mercury is only dangerous if the thermometers break!" lol Double standard.

Anyhoo, I've looked into this whole warming thing pretty closely. I used to think "this is just the natural cycle." But it ain't--we're way beyond that.

I like the article Scot posted - but I agree, why not use an original house?

 

[kodou]

"Homes are big contributors to the causes of climate change as they account for almost a third of the carbon dioxide emitted in the UK"

Does anyone else see a big omission in this sentence, or at least something overloooked? Ok so homes account for *almost* a third....where do the other two-thirds come from? Let's just say that the project deals with the wrong side of the equation; no less important though.

That said, I'd still like to see the end result of the project. I echo the disappointment in not using an already existing home.

 

[Forgotten Man]

Anyhoo, I've looked into this whole warming thing pretty closely. I used to think "this is just the natural cycle." But it ain't--we're way beyond that.

I’ll reiterate. There are those who want us to believe that WE are destroying our world. Nature has gone through so many different changes over thousands of years before our modern achievements and advancements.

Only 10 years ago, the worry was ozone… that has since quieted down now its global warming… if we buy into everything we hear or read… and mostly it’s coming from those who are trying to sell us these economical low emission remedies, I see a large money making campaign behind it all.

Carbon is all of a sudden a bad thing to our globe… even though, our own foot print leaves carbon… life creates carbon! Anything we do creates it! It just doesn’t make any sense! In Chicago in the winter of 1938 I believe it was recorded to have snowed BLACK! Because of the air was so full of emissions from factories, homes burning coal furnaces and stoves… the snow came down black! We haven’t had that ever since!

The globe is starting into a trend of cooling, I've looked into this quite a bit my self; this winter we’ve had here in California saw more snow on our mountains then in previous years! I’ve lived here all my life and never saw as much snow on our mountains as I did in December through February!

What I’d like to see is someone live in a 30s home, use 30s appliances and lamps and drive a 30s car and see if they can run an efficient life style using those amenities. That would be a real challenge!... SEND ME!

 

[Miss_Bella_Hell]

But cooling is a part of warming. The ice caps melt, the ocean gets cooler, and more severe weather occurs, including colder winters and stronger hurricanes. Warming leads into ice ages for this reason, whether natural or no.

 

[Forgotten Man]

Yes, a natural cycle... storms have happened, will happen and will continue to happen... that's all part of life on planet earth.

We can not stop storms or earthquakes or natural disasters... nature is cruel, wonderful, and unpredictable all at the same time.

The sun has a lot to play into this equation... we receive our warmth from the sun... and if we didn't have the sun, we'd never be able to live.

Today’s scientists forget that the world was a tumultuous and dangerous place in days past as today. We can not change storms coming or going... it's foolishness to think we have any major effect in that department. The world will heal and clean it's self just as it has for many, many years.

We can regulate pollutions, and be smarter to how we dispose of things but, when it comes to laws placing bans on light bulbs and such, it's an evil conspiracy to have the American public enslaved to buy what "they" think is right.... boils down to making money and limiting the American plublic in freedoms.

 

[Miss 1929]

Ozone

was a problem, until they prohibited the overuse of fluorocarbons, and it got better. Science works.
Time to do something about global warming will be when the water is up around the ankles of people who don't believe in it, I guess.
Now, what I don't understand is why any discussion of global warming is labeled as politics...it's not politics, it's science. Politics is what prevents us from taking care of the problem.
Rant over.

 

[Big Man]

Is global warming real? Was there a second shooter on the grassy knoll?

Who knows ...

The science of it all is too deep for my mind, but I do think we all have an obligation to do all we can to protect our environment. I freely admit that I know way too little about the subject to enter into an in-depth discussion, but from what little I do know, nothing that has been proposed to help reverse "global warming" (believe in it or not) would hurt the environment. So, why not move in that direction. At worst, it won't do any harm. At best (if global warming is real) it may help reverse the effects.

What I really find disturbing is all the hype and "scare de jure" that comes around every couple of years. Most of these "scares" are, unfortunately, driven by the less than pure motives of marketing and/or politics. These "scares" are akin to crying wolf. One of these days there will really be a major crisis that needs everyone's attention, and due to the "scare de jours" that have so muddied the waters, no one (or not enough of us) will take note.

Now, off my rant ...

 

[Fletch]

What a nice exercise. Thanks for sharing that, Scot. Although I must say, shame on them for building new and not relocating an existing building for rehab. There are historic buildings all over the place (here at least, I'm not so sure about the UK) that are facing demolition and could be had for the hauling away. As we in the preservation community like to say - the greenest building is the one already built!

Just you try getting any meaningful support for that idea when housing starts are in the tank the way they are. Local government is not going to be wild about helping out individual fixer-uppers when influential developers and contractors are hurting.

Even if no one wants to build new now, many would sooner see those old buildings pulled down. For everyone who understands the meaning of historic, there are three or four who understand the meaning of eyesore, and they tend to be much better funded and often have ordinary, hardworking folks on their side.

Just a cautionary tale for folks who want to save old things, but may be surprised by the bad feeling it can generate in a community.

 

[Forgotten Man]

Time to do something about global warming will be when the water is up around the ankles of people who don't believe in it, I guess.

Well, the ice caps have melted to a degree... but, it's causing things to cool down... and then, the ice caps have reformed almost 90 percent! Water levels are expected to rise by a foot in the next 100 years! A 100 YEARS!!!

In fact, the UN has been petitioned to drop it’s stance on “Global Warming” because, it’s a fish story!

Some wackos believe that California will fall into the ocean if "The Big One" hits... who knows until that happens.

Also, all Continents used to be all one… then, they all split up… shouldn’t we bring all of them back together again?

Al Gore is responsible for the "Global Warming" band wagon... he also invented the internet... remember?

So yeah, I'm not buyin' into "Global Warming"... it's a load of bullshky if you ask me... however, I do conserve energy, my electric bill is super low, and I continue to use incandescent light bulbs, use 70 year old appliances, and seem to be doing good... how is this explained? HUMMMM??? I will also be running my 1940 GE refrigerator soon as it's finished... a buddy of mine has a 1946 refrigerator that he uses... also a more contemporary fridge in his garage... he still pays only about $25. bucks a month on electricity!!!

I'm not trying to say "NOT" to be wise and try and protect our environment, I'm just saying not to buy into chicken little sayin' that the sky is fallin'! Scientists once said that the wreck of the Exxon Valdez made a permanent impact on the Prince William Sound, in Alaska... since then, the waters have come back to normal levels and is clean... no one would have known an oil spill had taken place there today! The earth renews it's self... it goes through cycles... the sun is responsible for our warming, and cooling; not us as much as we'd like to believe!

 

[Ada Veen]

There are several, if not more holes in the idea of global warming and astronomers are finding out that the globe is going into a state of “cooling” and not warming.

True science doesn’t lie, but political science does! Political science is only there to push the agendas they are about. Pure and simple.

All I’m asking is for people to wake up and look at facts, and question what is being spouted by so many today.

As a student of Environmental Policy, I have read this thread with much interest. This may be deemed too political for FL, though it is not intended to be in any way politically motivated. I completely agree with Forgotten Man that everyone should look at the facts before they make up their minds, and I have spent the last few years being coerced into looking at the global warming debate from every angle: as a social construction, as bad science, as a fundamental truth, as a political contestation, etc etc, and I have to say, after all this (exhausting!) research, I agree with Miss 1929 that the science, although not infallible, does seem to point to global warming being a real problem.

Agenda wise, everyone has far more to lose by recognising global warming as a problem than they have to gain, as de-carboning the economy is a severe challenge to all the countries of the world - there are lesser losers, but economically, there are no real winners. Thus the political incentive to invent global warming isn't actually that strong.

The cooling Forgotten Man refers to, is, I believe, either a reference to a leveling off of temperatures in the last few years (that he is right, science cannot explain) or perhaps the global cooling that is predicted (but not happening) by the Kroll Milankovitch cycles that dictate the earth's dynamic temperature changes. According to these cycles, we should theoretically be going into an ice age (or seeing as we are already in an ice age, leaving an interglacial) about now, but instead the planet is warming - which to a certain extent is a good thing, as it probably wouldn't be that pleasant living on a polar planet. However, there are concerns that if this warming persists, it could have drastic ecological consequences.

Carbon dioxide emissions do not dictate weather patterns or temperatures... nature dose that. We can not control the weather no matter how much we like to think we can! Weather patterns have change all the time... we see trends in the weather and we think the whole globe is warming up because of us... well, in history, the globe has cooled and warmed up... always changes. And that was before most modern inventions such as automobiles, power plants, the light bulb and the industrial revolution!

Again, there are many things I agree with here. Science does have difficulty with the links between regional weather patterns and global temperatures. And it is absolutely true that over time the globe has cooled and warmed up, most of this being down to the cycles I mentioned above. However I disagree on the point that carbon dioxide emissions cannot affect weather patterns - carbon dioxide concentrations are part of atmospheric chemistry, which is part of 'nature', as are we humans and our actions! And although it is true that despite our best efforts (such as cloud seeding) humans are currently too stupid to intentionally control the weather, ecosystem linkages are such that changes to the atmosphere can have huge knock-on effects - the ocean circulation systems, for example, are currently being slowed by all the meltwater coming from the poles (I disagree with the point Forgotten Man made about the ice caps growing - I could be wrong, but as far as I am aware they are not; although there is controversy about the sahara desert growing due to climate change) which could ironically make the UK a lot colder! Human actions can and do affect the environment, and the key I think to our success as a species in the future is to try and work out how we can do this purposefully to our benefit rather than accidentally to our cost. That's where houses like the one at the beginning of the thread come in!

Well, that was a long and probably very boring post, so I don't mind at all if no-one reads it, and just jumps to the next one! I have to talk about this stuff all day. In fact, I'm just taking a break from reading about pest management to write this, which is a bit of a busman's holiday lol