1920s summer suit?

[Two Types]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1920s-SAVILE-ROW-MENS-CREAM-BLUE-STRIPED-2PC-SINGLE-BREASTED-SUIT-CHEST-40-/330781149613?pt=UK_Men_s_Vintage_Clothing&hash=item4d0417c9ad

Is it 1920s? Or maybe Edwardian? i don't know the maker (Nash of Savile Row) but the label looks old. The trousers look genuine. But it's not really a period I know anything about.

 

[herringbonekid]

this certainly appears to be a genuine late teens to early 20s suit, and for a very tall man.... 38" inside leg !

 

[Rudie]

Finally a jacket with a decent sleeve length!
Looks like that triangle at the trousers' back was added later to accommodate a wider girth, doesn't it?

HBK, would it be a sin to have these trousers cuffed?

 

[herringbonekid]

HBK, would it be a sin to have these trousers cuffed?

not at all; they had cuffs and no cuffs in the teens -20s. entirely up to you.

 

[Rudie]

Cool. I'll probably bid on it. Just my size.

 

[Ben Stephens]

I think they may have had turnups at some time anyway, they seem to have very faint lines, however, looking how creased the trousers are, I may be wrong.

Whoever it was, was a very tall man indeed!

 

[Baron Kurtz]

Nice jacket, saw it this morning. note the postcode: "W". From 1917 onwards, this would have read "W1".

The label, at least, was produced before 1917. (for what that's worth). Going by the trousers style, I think this is much, much earlier.

bk

 

[Baron Kurtz]

To cut a long story short, I'm comvinced this is from the 1880s. Of course, if nash wasn't around then, my idea is wrong.

 

[Two Types]

Cool. I'll probably bid on it. Just my size.

Good luck!

 

[Qirrel]

To cut a long story short, I'm comvinced this is from the 1880s. Of course, if nash wasn't around then, my idea is wrong.

I agree. But it could be anything from 1880 to 1900 or even 1910. In any case it is two or three decades out of fashion for the 1920s. No breast pocket, stitched cuffs, four button front.

 

[Two Types]

So far, all I can establish is that Nash was working in Savile Row circa 1908. He was involved in a court case - Nash v Inman 1908 - in which he tried to get payment for eleven 'fancy waistcoats' that he had supplied to a Cambridge undergraduate. It appears that the case is still central to commonwealth contract law in relation to minors.

I believe Qirrel is the man who knows rather a lot about Victorian/Edwardian suits. Maybe he will have a clear idea about the date.

All I know about Victorian suits is that circa 1884/1885 there was a fashion for extra wide trousers that was started in - wait for it - Oxford (what goes around, comes around).

 

[Baron Kurtz]

Yes, you're right. I got a bit carried away with my exactness! Gotta love this type of cotton ticking, when used for a suit/jacket/trousers.

I agree. But it could be anything from 1880 to 1900 or even 1910. In any case it is two or three decades out of fashion for the 1920s. No breast pocket, stitched cuffs, four button front.

 

[Qirrel]

So far, all I can establish is that Nash was working in Savile Row circa 1908. He was involved in a court case - Nash v Inman 1908 - in which he tried to get payment for eleven 'fancy waistcoats' that he had supplied to a Cambridge undergraduate. It appears that the case is still central to commonwealth contract law in relation to minors.

I believe Qirrel is the man who knows rather a lot about Victorian/Edwardian suits. Maybe he will have a clear idea about the date.

All I know about Victorian suits is that circa 1884/1885 there was a fashion for extra wide trousers that was started in - wait for it - Oxford (what goes around, comes around).

If one follows all the instructions in WDF Vincents "Cutters Practical Guide", (1898 version) you would get this suit pretty much exactly reproduced. That goes for the 1912 version too, by the way. So one decade out of fashion by the 1920s, not two or three as I said.
To make this in 1912 you would, however, have to ignore the latest fashions.

 

[Qirrel]

If one follows all the instructions in WDF Vincents "Cutters Practical Guide", (1898 version) you would get this suit pretty much exactly reproduced. That goes for the 1912 version too, by the way. So one decade out of fashion by the 1920s, not two or three as I said.
To make this in 1912 you would, however, have to ignore the latest fashions.

Last night's many beers are still taking their tolls, I see.
Slightly more consistent:

If one follows all the instructions in WDF Vincents "Cutters Practical Guide", (1898 version) you would get this suit pretty much exactly reproduced. That goes for the 1912 version too, by the way. So at least one decade out of fashion by the 1920s.
To order this in 1912 you would have to be very conservative.

 

[herringbonekid]

note the postcode: "W". From 1917 onwards, this would have read "W1".

well spotted. pre 1917 it is !

 

[herringbonekid]

To order this in 1912 you would have to be very conservative.

i don't think you should underestimate just how conservative and behind-the-trends much of England would have looked in the teens (and 20s). not everyone would be walking around in up to the minute fashions.

it can be misleading to only refer to tailoring guides or catalogues for any given year. they don't account for people who hadn't much money, or for people who had money but preferred the style of ten years ago.

by your own account a suit style available in 1898 is still available in 1912; 14 years later.

 

[Ben Stephens]

Although I believe this suit is pre WW1 at least, let us not be hasty with the label, as, we know many tailors used up old labels so is just anecdotal. Also, as HBK said, England was conservative, I have trousers on suits dated 1945 in almost exactly the same style as these!

I feel turn of the century would be a good guess at date though!

Ben

 

[Ben Stephens]

The only other label I can find is on a 1901 Officers Jacket. There is no close up though, but, it looks the same. Other than the reference TT found, there is very little information.

 

[Qirrel]

i don't think you should underestimate just how conservative and behind-the-trends much of England would have looked in the teens (and 20s). not everyone would be walking around in up to the minute fashions.

it can be misleading to only refer to tailoring guides or catalogues for any given year. they don't account for people who hadn't much money, or for people who had money but preferred the style of ten years ago.

by your own account a suit style available in 1898 is still available in 1912; 14 years later.

This is true, and I think particularly regarding English tailoring. Many men in the 1920s would probably be wearing suits that were made for them 5, 10 years ago, or even earlier.

It is very difficult to date garments exactly without a label, and the same problems of dating victorian/edwardian garments arise as when dating a later garment. The same way it is sometimes difficult to distinguish a 1930s suit from a 1950s suit, it can be difficult to determine whether a suit is from 1890 or 1910. The latest example I have been able to dig up of a four button coat pattern is from 1918. It is of course likely that some tailors continued to make four button coats for a few customers in the 1920s, but by that time, the four button coat with stitching around the cuffs would have fallen out of favour. It is emphasized time and again in cutting books and magazines how one should always be up to date with the latest fashions, and be prepared to offer less severe versions of it to conservative customers, since even they do not care to be left behind in the march of fashion.

I am not excluding the possibility that the suit is 1880 or 1918, but simply saying that it's style is most typical of the turn of the century/early to mid edwardian period.

 

[Two Types]

it can be misleading to only refer to tailoring guides or catalogues for any given year. they don't account for people who hadn't much money.

Absolutely. I have an acquaintance who was born into a very poor family in 1917. In the early 1930s, having already left school, his only clothes were old Edwardian suits in very heavy wool, including belted Norfolk style suits. In an era of wide trousers and sleek stylish jackets, he always felt foolish and out of step with the rest of the local youths. But with his pitiful wages supporting his parents and seven siblings, he had no choice but to wear what he could afford.