How many new jackets do you have coming (and how many potential ones)?

[Rich22]

I agree with Marc, Jim and Monitor regarding the descriptions of leather- unless it's been coated or partially coated in plastic (which for me is a no) it generally doesn't really matter how the leather is described, as long as the leather sample I receive looks and feels nice. It is, however, useful to know if a leather has been aniline dyed completely, so that black really means black all the way though- I didn't even know that was a possibility, so it makes me want to buy a jacket that is black throughout! I doubt many (or perhaps any) jackets are "fully aniline leather" in the truest sense, because even on furniture the absorbency is just a nightmare.

Edit: And yes, I agree that 'aniline' and 'pigmented' have degenerated into nonsensical terms that are now just meaningless techno-babble, much like most terms relating to leather!

 

[Monitor]

Then you have Iron Heart’s approach - this is the leather, the guru has selected it, buy it or not! Obviously the faithful are accustomed to this approach, but I do think it has wider appeal by simplifying things.

And they produced some fantastic leather jackets! Their Deerskin shirt cannot be surpassed.

I agree with Marc, Jim and Monitor regarding the descriptions of leather- unless it's been coated or partially coated in plastic (which for me is a no)

I agree but I also believe that at the price point we're discussing here, such a thing shouldn't even be an option and luckily, as far as I know, it isn't. All the makers that are in this game strive to bring out a top quality product and nobody is using such a sub-par material.

E.g. full aniline leather without any topcoat will soak up water like a sponge. Therefore it might not be your first choice when looking for a jacket for riding.

But what exactly is aniline? I honestly never quite managed to figure that one out.
Wikipedia says aniline leather is simply dyed leather and since all leather is dyed (even "natural" or "tan" as leather without any dye is gray/green (yeah, kinda what you'd expect something dead to look like)). So basically, all leather is aniline.
So what's pigmented leather? Half the descriptions online are interchangeable with aniline so at this point, as @Rich22 states, the term doesn't seem to have any meaning. From what I gather, it's supposed to mean coated leather, right? So what's that got to do with pigmentation, a noun that Merriam-Webster defines as 'coloration with or deposition of pigment'. So we've got two words that mean the same thing that means nothing.

As a complete amateur, all I know is that there's leather with a top coat and without top coat and leather that's dyed only on top and leather that's dyed all the way thru. Which is why I like Schott's term for it. Naked hide! Simple & to the point. [/QUOTE]

 

[Rich22]

Quite a few decent quality black jackets I've handled appear to have a coating of some kind to make them 'blacker'- I assumed that sprayed finish might contain some plastic. Black goat, such as Aero's goat, appears to have a thick, tough, coating, that I always believed was at least partially plastic? If you can't create scuff marks very easily with a fingernail, I think you're handling more than just pure leather...

 

[ABCD]

But what exactly is aniline? I honestly never quite managed to figure that one out.

So what's pigmented leather?

From left to right:
Full aniline pigment dyed (dyed all the way through + top coat; pigment dyed (top coat only); full aniline (dyed all the way through, no top coat)

 

[Canuck Panda]

After seeing this account repeatedly on Instagram, I pulled the trigger. The cost was 580 shipped. There is a brown one in calfskin on Aliexpress for half that. But this is suppose to be naked hand dyed horsehide. I don't know. I'm a sucker for green leather. And I have a very similar scorpion helmet like the one in the photo. I took it as my sign from above. Hope I don't get ****med.

 

[ton312]

After seeing this account repeatedly on Instagram, I pulled the trigger. The cost was 580 shipped. There is a brown one in calfskin on Aliexpress for half that. But this is suppose to be naked hand dyed horsehide. I don't know. I'm a sucker for green leather. And I have a very similar scorpion helmet like the one in the photo. I took it as my sign from above. Hope I don't get ****med.

View attachment 361578

Please post photos when you have it! This dude's gram has been irritating my feed and I've wanted to jump several times. Please keep the board updated on this!

 

[handymike]

I’m also interested in your analysis of the jacket when it arrives.

 

[Canuck Panda]

Please post photos when you have it! This dude's gram has been irritating my feed and I've wanted to jump several times. Please keep the board updated on this!

Definitely. Same here. I am hoping for a Chinese 5Star with Western tanneries level leather. Fingers crossed. So far it doesn't seem like a ****. Still waiting for tracking number from this seller.

 

[TooManyHatsOnlyOneHead]

count me in as well. They posted an olive green one the other day that had me pretty close to pulling the trigger. If I didn't have that LL Lightning in british racing green coming soon, I think I would have gone all in. Their truckers certainly look worthy. Even if they're at Gap or Levis level with maybe an upgraded leather, that would be huge at that price point.

 

[hondurasdave47]

Definitely. Same here. I am hoping for a Chinese 5Star with Western tanneries level leather. Fingers crossed. So far it doesn't seem like a ****. Still waiting for tracking number from this seller.

I think a lot of us have been waiting for somebody to take the plunge!

 

[Carlos840]

Just picked up this vintage model e for a great deal.
First Vanson from the 80s, i look forward to seeing what it is like.

 

[Superfluous]

And you should!

The only leather experts are the people working at the tannery. Leather jacket makers are tailors & designers and they certainly ain't tanning experts. They'd be waaay better off just saying "This is our brown leather and this is our black leather. They're all pretty cool!" 'cause frankly, at this point, that's all I wanna know.

Believe me, the only thing that makes sense is to forget 90% of "terminology" you hear getting thrown around out and just focus on color, texture and thickness (though even that part is filled with bs).
What @Jin431 says, it's just marketing techno-babble. Process of tanning is very complicated & by the time any information on how a batch of leather that some specific maker sourced has been tanned, gets transformed into a blurb on some retail platform, it went through so many levels of misunderstanding that it's best to simply ignore it.

I mean, retail websites can't even tell the difference between leather that's been split into layers & leather that a machinist flips upside-down before starting working on a jacket. Most of the internet believes Shinki is a type of leather!

What's happening is that you're hearing all of these terms from people who've never set foot into a tannery. For instance, read the descriptions on Himel's "about our leathers" page - You'll notice that all "descriptions" consist of the exact same terms that have been slightly rearranged. They can't even get the suede bit right!

But that is okay!
Because leather jacket makers themselves aren't even sure what they're buying and will for the most part just source leather that's got all the characteristics their product is known for; ie. what they're used to working with and ultimately, what the consumer expects from them.

It often happens to the tannery that they run out of a certain type of leather, which then forces makers to look for the closest match. I mean, that won't happen to Fine Creek or Real McCoy but it happens. It happened to Schott and Vanson. But what I'm getting at, not even the machinists will notice something's changed, let alone people who talk about tanning on social platforms.

People who have been in the industry for decades will happily tell you they don't care how the leather has been tanned as long as it checks all the boxes they require and I do believe that's actually a very healthy approach to all of this.

Respectfully disagree. Dave Himel has been studying leather tanning in depth for many years. He has visited multiple different tanneries in Japan, Europe, and the US -- sometimes multiple times -- and interacted extensively and intimately with the tanners. The notion that he is uninformed about the leather he sells and/or no more knowledgeable than the average jacket enthusiast is nonsensical. Dave may not be as knowledgeable as the actual tanners, but he knows exponentially more than most enthusiasts. I have spoken with Dave about this precise issue. His has an impressive command of the intricacies of leather tanning.

 

[navetsea]

Just picked up this vintage model e for a great deal.
First Vanson from the 80s, i look forward to seeing what it is like.

80's the era of excess, even the zipper has an extra puller on a puller

 

[Carlos840]

80's the era of excess, even the zipper has an extra puller on a puller

Yep, these had me worried for a second, but i am pretty sure they are just a removable extra that was added by the owner.
They are coming off as soon as i get the jacket...

https://www.ubuy.vn/en/product/1BMZ...dle-mend-fixer-for-suitcases-luggage-jacket-b

I am pretty sure the side laces have been replaced with paracord and are tied off with skull beads too, these are going to have to go too.

 

[navetsea]

what is aniline exactly, I always thought it is dyed so drum dyed or dip dyed, or paint brush/ sponge dyed

Then where is the boundary between dye and pigment? is water based leather paint pigment or dye?, or would oil based considered dye since it might get mixed with the oil in the leather, what about alcohol leather paint? we might say if semi translucent then it is a dye and when fully opague it is a pigment, but if we dilute any paint thin enough then it would be semi translucent and get absorbed into the pores...

brain shock... cannot compute....

or is it varnish perhaps acrylic varnish top coat make it called pigmented also making it waterpoof, the colorant doesn't matter maybe as long as varnish is not applied it would be called naked and thus aniline dyed... I dunno...

 

[Carlos840]

what is aniline exactly, I always thought it is dyed so drum dyed or dip dyed, or paint brush/ sponge dyed

Then where is the boundary between dye and pigment? is water based leather paint pigment or dye?, or would oil based considered dye since it might get mixed with the oil in the leather, what about alcohol leather paint? we might say if semi translucent then it is a dye and when fully opague it is a pigment, but if we dilute any paint thin enough then it would be semi translucent and get absorbed into the pores...

brain shock... cannot compute....

The main difference is solubility, dyes are soluble, pigments are not.

The term Aniline just defines a chemical composition, aniline dye is a chemical compound that dyes the leather/material itself. That is the important thing to remember, the material itself changes colour. And the dye itself is translucent. Aniline dye leaves no residue.

Pigment is basically paint, it is a pigment (a coloured powder) that is in suspension within a liquid (not disolved).
Once the liquid evaporates it leaves a coat of pigment behind, just like when you repaint your bike or your house.

The main difference is that the pigment leaves a coloured residue behind, the dye doesn't, it has coloured the material itself.
All you have to do to fully get it is buy a pot af anyline dye and try it on a leather, wood, fabric, it reacts very differently from paint.

 

[navetsea]

is fiebing a pigment or dye then I wonder, isn't just like ink. but when dry on, it leaves a layer of sheen on the second application or if not diluted. on the bottle it says dye, but then it s not very special at all. when people talk about hand dyeing leather it sounds very special.

I fiebing'ed my leather diluted a bit with water, using a bun from old cotton undershirt... this can not be aniline hand dyeing it was so simple.

 

[Carlos840]

is fiebing a pigment or dye then I wonder, isn't just like ink. but when dry on, it leaves a layer of sheen on the second application or if not diluted.

I'm not sure, i'm not a chemist and there has to be a bunch of things going on that can be explained by chemistry...

This is pretty interrestign:

https://www.imaging.org/site/PDFS/Papers/1996/RP-0-66/2178.pdf

"Dyes exist in a monomolecular state. In contrast,
pigments exist as particles, typically ranging in size from
0.1 to 1.0 micron. Each pigment particle contains a large
number of molecules. Figure 2 shows that each 0.1 mi-
cron particle of beta-copper phthalocyanine contains
~1.5 million molecules.2 Of these, -10% occupy surface
sites."

The smallest dye partical can be a single molecule, whereas the smallest pigment particle has 1.5 million molecules!

 

[navetsea]

probably dye is something that takes time to get reaction like hair dye or fabric dye, or even tea or coffee dye, while anything that leaves color once the water or alcohol or whatever solution evaporate is pigment? but somewhat labelled dye?

 

[Carlos840]

probably dye is something that takes time to get reaction like hair dye or fabric dye, or even tea or coffee dye, while anything that leaves color once the water or alcohol or whatever solution evaporate is pigment? but somewhat labelled dye?

Dyes and pigments are chemically different whatever you do with them.
Dyes are water soluble, pigments are not.